marlin 1891

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Sherrill;

I guess no one wants to take on the guns assembled from parts question.
Well, here it is.
During WW I, the Marlin Arms Corportation, later Marlin-Rockwell Corporation assembled sporting arms from parts on hand to keep employees busy between war contracts for machine guns. In about 1918, M-R sent out a letter that stated certain sporting arms were no longer available as the parts on hand supply was exhausted. After WW I, M-R started into making sporting arms again, using existing tooling for models in the Marlin line. Some of those models were re-named, such as the Model 27-S became the Model 40, and the Model 42 became the Model 42-A, the Model 1893 became the Model '93. etc. It was M-R that actually introduced the Model 39 as there are several around with M-R barrel markings. After 1921, M-R more or less sold out and became the Marlin Firearms Corporation. Some of the models were continued, but the name was changed back, like the Model 40 went back to the 27-S. The Model 42-A stayed the same and others. The Model 39 got a Marlin Firearms Corporation barrel marking, which continued all the way through production.
Once the war was over, sporting arms went into full production and they wanted to get all the "new" models out there they could. It was to their benefit to look like they were in business full time and production was in full swing with new models, not old, obsolete models. Many parts were left over and used in "newer" models like the Model '93, but to assemble an old, obsolete gun would not have been in their best interest.
That Model 1891 is not something they would have assembled to sell. It has just been worked over. The butt stock does not match the forearm, and if it was assembled like it is, the wood would have matched. And, in all my years of collecting, I cannot remember ever seeing a sideloading Model 1891 with a hard rubber butt plate. They all had steel, crescent butt plates. Not to say it was not offered, but I just do not remember ever seeing a hard rubber butt plate on a 1st variation Model 1891.
I hope this helps.

[Hunt4em]

Regnier,
Well put! I was afraid of stepping on any toes and besides, my two finger typing would of took hours.
I went back to check the final bid on this monstrosity. Over $1000 and the reserve was not met! What's that old saying, "Where two fools met!" I would like to have the side plate but not at that price. Thanks for all you do!

John

[marlinman93]

Sorry Sherrill, but didn't check back on this post until now. I totally agree with Regnier, and his explanation of these parts guns is as good as it gets.
I also agree that this one isn't a Marlin parts gun, as Marlin would not have put both types of loading arrangement in one gun.
The guns assembled from parts (by Marlin) are as good a fit and finish as any guns they made. Just often have mixtures of parts that shouldn't fall into what we call the "standard".
Often we see guns like the 1892, or 1897 Marlins, or even a few deluxe 1893, or 1894 Marlins that were all pre WWI era guns, but when assembled after WWI they might have a later "Corporation" rollstamp, or even a bullseye in the stock.
My deluxe 1892 with pistol grip, checkered stocks has a Corporation barrel. I also have a 1893 with matching numbers, and a bullseye in the buttstock, which would make it 1924 or so.
These strange oddities make early Marlins tough to pin down occasionally, and also make some folks eat there words when they say Marlin "never made them". (Myself included in past years!) I've truly learned to bite my tongue every time I start to say "never". They are also what makes collecting these guns so much fun for me, and others.
It takes a close examination to sometimes figure out if an early Marlin is righteous, or just monkeyed with, but in the case of the 1891 at auction it doesn't take much to know it's just plain wrong.-Vall

[Sherrill]

Wow!!!!
Thanks for all the info. Regnier...that was a great explanation of what went on with all the left over parts. I see what you mean, that they would put the gun together well even if using a mixture of parts. I am not experienced enough to see very much but I am getting better. Now that you mention it, I did not even know enough at first to notice the butt plate but all the old ones I have been looking at since are steel like you said. I think that now I might catch that. I have been looking at other guns and have found that I know more things to look for now....all thanks to my new friends!!

I have my books ordered and in the meantime have been picking apart my blue book and other Marlin info I found on the web. I have to piece together a lot but it is fun doing it. Also got the Gun Digest. It could take a long time to get through that thing!

By the way, was there never a 30-30 barrel stamped black powder? I was looking at Auction Arms #8278603 a model 1893 take down .30-.30. I asked about serial number and also about the smokeless or black powder stamp. I asked this because in the blue book it said there were 2 barrel variations and that the black powder or Model B was worth less. Unfortunately it did not specify what caliber it was referring to or if it was referring to the newer model 93's . I guess I asked a stupid question because his answer was there were never any black powder barrels in 30-30. I got a Marlin catalog in the mail today since I asked him that and it shows all the ammo for the 1893 and tells whether they are loaded with smokeless or black powder. All the 30-30 are smokeless. There is no reserve but starting bid is at $1167. If any of you happen to take a look at it can you tell me if you think it is overpriced? I just looked again and isn't a takedown supposed to have the larger thumbscrew on the right side of the receiver because I don't see one.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all your help. I will probably have more questions....
Sherrill

[Sure-Shot]

There are two types of takedowns, one in the 22's has the large screw you refer to and comes apart in the receiver itself, the 1893/93 takedowns have a lever at the front of the receiver, you pull the mag tube out slightly open the lever and then unscrew the barrel.

[Sherrill]

Thanks Sure-Shot!!
I figured I was missing something.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Sherrill;

I have not had a chance to look at the gun on the internet yet, but will do so later.
So you know, all "B" grade barrels or guns marked For Black Powder will be in either .32-40 or .38-55 calibers only. The Special Smokeless Steel barrels will be in all calibers the Model 1893 was available in.
Early guns made before 1895 will be soft steel, and not marked. Of course, the only calibers were the .32-40 and .38-55, and were not marked either way.
I hope this helps, for now.......

[Sherrill]

Regnier,
Yes that does help. The Marlin Catalog I have is a 1913 (repro from Abbybooks). It shows drawings of all the old calibers of bullets and says whether they are loaded with smokeless or black powder. Just as you say there are only those two with black powder. A lot of things are starting to fit together as I go forward with the learning process. Thank you for all your help. I am going to make myself a "cheat sheet" of all the info everyone has given me here. I just posted a new question "Model 1894 SRC" in case you are interested.
Thanks again,
Sherrill

[Mark II]

So, can someone clarify the barrel marking for me? What should be on the barrel of an original 1891? Is it "corp." or "co." on the later ones? The one I am looking at says "Marlin Fire-Arms Co., New Haven, CT. U.S.A." and has all of the proper patent dates up to 1890, no caliber marking but it's a .22. Serial number in the 73xxx range.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Mark II;

The Marlin Model 1891 should be marked Marlin Fire-Arms Company and for the sideloading versions, the last patent date is 1890. The second version, the last patent date is March, 1892. This patent date was used on the .22 caliber guns after that, including the Model 1891 (2nd variation), Model 1892, Model '92, Model 1897 and Model '97.
The roll die did change over the years, and the hyphenated Fire-Arms became one word, Firearms. The Model 1891 and 1892 had heavier barrels, and the Model 1897's had a slimed down, lighter barrel.
I hope this helps.

[Mark II]

So the barrel markings that I am looking at say this is a 1st variation 1891?

It has the crescent buttplate, side loading gate, half length magazine tube and case coloring on the hammer and lever. The only thing that confuses me is that the barrel is half octagon, half round.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Mark II;

Do not let that confuse you. The 1/2 octagon, 1/2 round barrel was available from Marlin at the same price as a full octagon barrel. It is a rare feature, especially on the sideloading Model 1891's.
By the way, the 1/2 magazine was considered a full length magazine on the first variation Model 1891. The only other length available was the short magazine, which ended flush with the forearm cap.
I hope this helps.

[Red Feather]

Hi!
I just received my great grandfather's 336-A Marlin Rifle from my dad.
According to the database where you can look up serial #'s, mine was manufactured in 1891.
Mine says:
"The Marlin Firearms Co. NEW HAVEN, CONN U.S.A.-Est. 1870
Model 336-A. DL 32 Special Cal."

It is my first rifle.
The stock is cracked & has a nut & bolt through it-my great uncle borrowed it from my dad & he broke the stock.
Red Feather

[marlinman93]

Must be a rare 336, as it's the only one I've ever heard of that wasn't made after 1948!
That's the first year the 336 was made, so I'd guess ou looked up something wrong when you came up with 1891.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Red Feather;

Better look at the serial number again. The Model 336 should have a letter prefix if it was made between 1948 and 1968. After 1968, the first two digits of the serial number indicate the year of manufacture. From 1969 to 1972, the first two digits are the year of manufacture, and after that, you subtract the first two digits from 100 to determine year of manufacture. (i.e. 100 - 27 = 73 or 1973)
Since you state your gun is a 336 A ( a rifle with 24 inch barrel ), then it should have been made sometime between 1948 and 1980.
I hope this helps.