Ballard Info
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Jim;
You will be very glad you got John Duthcer's book. He spent 20 years putting that book together, and it is by far, one of the finest and well written books I have.
You will be surprised at what John says about the split breech block. When you get your book, turn to page 295 for a picture and a what John has to say about it. He has never heard of a single failure. That same section describes how the action works, much like Vall describes.
Enjoy........
You will be very glad you got John Duthcer's book. He spent 20 years putting that book together, and it is by far, one of the finest and well written books I have.
You will be surprised at what John says about the split breech block. When you get your book, turn to page 295 for a picture and a what John has to say about it. He has never heard of a single failure. That same section describes how the action works, much like Vall describes.
Enjoy........
- marlinman93
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The Ballard split breechblock has never been an issue as far as I know. I've never seen any evidence of failure, even when they were chambered for cartridges that shouldn't be in a Ballard.
You will never regret buying John's book, even if you weren't interested in Ballard rifles! It's quite possibly the finest gun book I've ever owned. The data and illustrations are as good as it gets in gun books, and much better than many of the "coffee table" gun books.-Vall
You will never regret buying John's book, even if you weren't interested in Ballard rifles! It's quite possibly the finest gun book I've ever owned. The data and illustrations are as good as it gets in gun books, and much better than many of the "coffee table" gun books.-Vall
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Vall, Rick:
I looked at Dale Woody's web site and he has a couple of examples of the Pacific engraving and lettering. One example shows a stepped receiver with the two line J.M. Marlin lettering. Another example shows a stepped receiver with the three line Marlin Fire Arms lettering.
http://www.gunfancy.com/ballardpacificlft.JPG
http://www.gunfancy.com/ballardfirst3line.jpg
Just curious if there are any records based on serial number when the changes were made in the lettering?
-jim
PS: I decided to go with the 38-55 chambering. I don't want to stress the old gal out TOO much. I've got a Green Mountain barrel on order. I want to get it stocked and barreled before I send it to Dale to work his magic. I'm starting to get sweaty palms just thinking about this!
I looked at Dale Woody's web site and he has a couple of examples of the Pacific engraving and lettering. One example shows a stepped receiver with the two line J.M. Marlin lettering. Another example shows a stepped receiver with the three line Marlin Fire Arms lettering.
http://www.gunfancy.com/ballardpacificlft.JPG
http://www.gunfancy.com/ballardfirst3line.jpg
Just curious if there are any records based on serial number when the changes were made in the lettering?
-jim
PS: I decided to go with the 38-55 chambering. I don't want to stress the old gal out TOO much. I've got a Green Mountain barrel on order. I want to get it stocked and barreled before I send it to Dale to work his magic. I'm starting to get sweaty palms just thinking about this!
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Jim;
I found a Rigby Ballard on page 228 that has the J. M. Marlin marking and is in the 14,000 serial number range. It is a two line marking.
I found a No. 6 1/2 Off-hand rifle (page 219) in the same serial range (14,000) with J. M. Marlin markings, and it too is a two line marking.
I would guess that is about as close as we will get without going through the entire book trying to find a gun in your serial number range (16,000) to compare to.
I hope this helps.
I found a Rigby Ballard on page 228 that has the J. M. Marlin marking and is in the 14,000 serial number range. It is a two line marking.
I found a No. 6 1/2 Off-hand rifle (page 219) in the same serial range (14,000) with J. M. Marlin markings, and it too is a two line marking.
I would guess that is about as close as we will get without going through the entire book trying to find a gun in your serial number range (16,000) to compare to.
I hope this helps.
Jim,
I bought the book at a gun show last year for $35, great deal, but now I want a MARLIN Ballard!! I know you'll enjoy reading, reading and reading that book. I can't wait to see some of your impressive color case hardening on that Pacific action. If by some very slim chance you don't just love it when your done, I would gladly take it off your hands. There is just something about the #5's that make me really want one!
Thanks, John
I bought the book at a gun show last year for $35, great deal, but now I want a MARLIN Ballard!! I know you'll enjoy reading, reading and reading that book. I can't wait to see some of your impressive color case hardening on that Pacific action. If by some very slim chance you don't just love it when your done, I would gladly take it off your hands. There is just something about the #5's that make me really want one!
Thanks, John
Well, the book arrived yesterday, and I am impressed! It is very nicely done, with a tremendous amount of information.
One thing I didn't see in the book was a picture of an engraved Pacific in
the style that Dale Woody shows on his website. Is engraving appropriate for this rifle? I'm guessing if it's engraved, the stock and forearm would be checkered, but I'm not sure what pattern and LPI.
The book did answer my question on the markings. On pg 159 there is a
picture of serial number 18100 and it says that it was one of the last Ballards with the J.M. Marlin markings.
I appreciate all of your recommendations on the book!!!
-jim
One thing I didn't see in the book was a picture of an engraved Pacific in
the style that Dale Woody shows on his website. Is engraving appropriate for this rifle? I'm guessing if it's engraved, the stock and forearm would be checkered, but I'm not sure what pattern and LPI.
The book did answer my question on the markings. On pg 159 there is a
picture of serial number 18100 and it says that it was one of the last Ballards with the J.M. Marlin markings.
I appreciate all of your recommendations on the book!!!
-jim
- marlinman93
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- Distinguished Expert
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- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
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Jim D.;
As you have guessed by now, there are very few engraved Pacific Ballards. In fact, the engravers pull shown on page 155 is a L.D. Nimschke engraved Ballard, and as far as I know, the only Pacific to be "factory" engraved. Nimschke engraved a number of the "Long Range" and "Mid-Range" guns.
Page 156 shows a Ballard (20-4) with checking also. It also has a horn inlay on the forearm. I can get the information from George about the checking if you need it.
As you have guessed by now, there are very few engraved Pacific Ballards. In fact, the engravers pull shown on page 155 is a L.D. Nimschke engraved Ballard, and as far as I know, the only Pacific to be "factory" engraved. Nimschke engraved a number of the "Long Range" and "Mid-Range" guns.
Page 156 shows a Ballard (20-4) with checking also. It also has a horn inlay on the forearm. I can get the information from George about the checking if you need it.
Vall, Rick,
I guess that engraving my Pacific will be a dead give away that it's not original. That's ok, someday Woody may be as famous as Nimschke!
I absolutely love the engraving pattern shown in the book and that Dale duplicates. What better canvas for an artist than an original Pacific action?
Since this is going to be a "put together" rifle, I figure what the heck, why not do it up right.
I've been going over the book looking at checkering patterns. It's hard to tell what the pattern does at the bottom of the stock. There is one picture that shows a pattern wrapping around the top of the stock. You can also tell on stocks that have a flat bottom that the pattern does not wrap around the bottom. But on a "normal" stock with the later cresent butt plate, does it wrap at the bottom AND at the top? If it does, I'm not sure I can do that. It looks like the patterns use the diagonal border lines as the master lines, producing a very elongated diamond.
So, I guess the questions I have regarding checkering is:
1. Does the pattern wrap at the bottom or the top, or both?
2. What lines per inch did they use?
Also, Some forearms on the Pacific look like they are oversized and are rounded back into the frame whereas others look like they have a flush fit.
Is there any kind of a pattern here?
My serial number is just 21 off of the Montana #16819 shown in the book!
Thanks for your help guys!!!!
-jim
I guess that engraving my Pacific will be a dead give away that it's not original. That's ok, someday Woody may be as famous as Nimschke!
I absolutely love the engraving pattern shown in the book and that Dale duplicates. What better canvas for an artist than an original Pacific action?
Since this is going to be a "put together" rifle, I figure what the heck, why not do it up right.
I've been going over the book looking at checkering patterns. It's hard to tell what the pattern does at the bottom of the stock. There is one picture that shows a pattern wrapping around the top of the stock. You can also tell on stocks that have a flat bottom that the pattern does not wrap around the bottom. But on a "normal" stock with the later cresent butt plate, does it wrap at the bottom AND at the top? If it does, I'm not sure I can do that. It looks like the patterns use the diagonal border lines as the master lines, producing a very elongated diamond.
So, I guess the questions I have regarding checkering is:
1. Does the pattern wrap at the bottom or the top, or both?
2. What lines per inch did they use?
Also, Some forearms on the Pacific look like they are oversized and are rounded back into the frame whereas others look like they have a flush fit.
Is there any kind of a pattern here?
My serial number is just 21 off of the Montana #16819 shown in the book!
Thanks for your help guys!!!!
-jim
- marlinman93
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- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon
Jim,
Take a look at page 276-277. There are numerous pictures of Ballard forearms, and checkering patterns. All Ballards I've seen the checkering wraps underneath the forearm. At least I haven't seen one that was just the sides yet!
Pacifics vary depending on barrel size. The larger barrels didn't have forearms that were flush with the receiver bottom, as there wasn't as much wood available. Smaller diameter barrels could allow for the flush forearm.
I'd go a little bit larger to avoid cracking in the future. At least that's what I did when I replaced the forearm on my last Pacific.
Most Ballards used 22LPI checkering I believe.-Vall
Take a look at page 276-277. There are numerous pictures of Ballard forearms, and checkering patterns. All Ballards I've seen the checkering wraps underneath the forearm. At least I haven't seen one that was just the sides yet!
Pacifics vary depending on barrel size. The larger barrels didn't have forearms that were flush with the receiver bottom, as there wasn't as much wood available. Smaller diameter barrels could allow for the flush forearm.
I'd go a little bit larger to avoid cracking in the future. At least that's what I did when I replaced the forearm on my last Pacific.
Most Ballards used 22LPI checkering I believe.-Vall
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!