Hi
I just impulse-bought a broken Marlin exposed hammer pump shotgun. From its markings, it is an 1898 with a s/n 709x. Wood is in good condition, forearm is smooth, not grooved; the barrel is short (20”?). the metal looks like it was just refinished. An interesting feature is that the butt plate looks like it is made out of leather, very old leather. Could it be original? It is a very nice SG.
Problem with it is that the bolt isn’t connected to the pump. It just slides back and forth, and doesn’t go into battery. Shop owner said that it operational before going to a gunsmith (for re-bluing?). The previous owner received it back in this condition, and the GS disappeared.
Looks like an assembly problem to me. I can see the operating rod, with a pin on its end, inside the receiver. Pump moves back and forth freely, its motion limited only by the bolt. Any recommendations? Is there any way that I can remove the bolt without a total disassemble? Any info that can enlighten me on it would also be appreciated.
Thank you
impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Kenl;
Frankly, it sounds like you may have several things missing internally. To remove the breech bolt, open the action fully with the pump handle back in normal position like it was connected to the breech bolt, remove the carrier screw. Move the pump handle forward slightly and the carrier will drop out. With the carrier out, you should be able to remove the breech bolt.
If your forearm is moving so freely, you may be missing the slide stop.
The leather butt plate is not original, as it would have had a hard rubber butt plate with Marlin written in script across the bottom of th toe. A very good replacement can be found at www.GunGrip.com It is listed as the Marlin 17 butt plate, but it was used on many models of the exposed hammer pump guns.
Good luck.........
Frankly, it sounds like you may have several things missing internally. To remove the breech bolt, open the action fully with the pump handle back in normal position like it was connected to the breech bolt, remove the carrier screw. Move the pump handle forward slightly and the carrier will drop out. With the carrier out, you should be able to remove the breech bolt.
If your forearm is moving so freely, you may be missing the slide stop.
The leather butt plate is not original, as it would have had a hard rubber butt plate with Marlin written in script across the bottom of th toe. A very good replacement can be found at www.GunGrip.com It is listed as the Marlin 17 butt plate, but it was used on many models of the exposed hammer pump guns.
Good luck.........
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Thank you for the reply. Man, I hope it's not missing parts, but I knew it was a project when I bought it.
Went to visit it yesterday (I live in Kalifornia - they make you wait for everything, including a broken 110 year old shotgun) and looked it over again. Thank you Bob Smalser for your excellent post. Doesn't LOOK like anything is missing, I think the slide carrier pin isn't inserted into the carrier (or bolt? don't have these names down yet) slot. I'll check it out again when it comes home. Fore-end looks home-made.
Went to visit it yesterday (I live in Kalifornia - they make you wait for everything, including a broken 110 year old shotgun) and looked it over again. Thank you Bob Smalser for your excellent post. Doesn't LOOK like anything is missing, I think the slide carrier pin isn't inserted into the carrier (or bolt? don't have these names down yet) slot. I'll check it out again when it comes home. Fore-end looks home-made.
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
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Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Kenl;
There seems to be a problem here in that the Marlin Model 1898 shotgun is a takedown system, and the pump handle slide bar has to disconnect from the breech bolt when taken down. It (the slide bar) automaticaly reconnects to the breech bolt when the gun is put back together. So, something must be missing in order that the slide bar is not connecting to the breech bolt when the proper takedown is accompolished and the gun put back together.
Some of the instuctions Bob shows will not be correct for the Model 1898 as it has a oudifferent takedown system than the Model 30 he used in the pictures posted. It also has a different "hang fire" safety system. There are some internal differences as well, but for the most part, the instructions work.
One thng different about your shotgun is that it is a very early Model 1898 by the serial number, and it probably does not have the hang fire safety release button as found on later Model 1898's. Some of the very early Model 1898's did not have that particular safety feature that was added to the guns a made later(about the first year after introduction). How this could affect things I am not sure, but you do have a problem and you need to check it out. I suggest you find a copy of the Brophy book and read the section on the exposed hammer pump shotguns. You will find instructions on taking the action down.
There seems to be a problem here in that the Marlin Model 1898 shotgun is a takedown system, and the pump handle slide bar has to disconnect from the breech bolt when taken down. It (the slide bar) automaticaly reconnects to the breech bolt when the gun is put back together. So, something must be missing in order that the slide bar is not connecting to the breech bolt when the proper takedown is accompolished and the gun put back together.
Some of the instuctions Bob shows will not be correct for the Model 1898 as it has a oudifferent takedown system than the Model 30 he used in the pictures posted. It also has a different "hang fire" safety system. There are some internal differences as well, but for the most part, the instructions work.
One thng different about your shotgun is that it is a very early Model 1898 by the serial number, and it probably does not have the hang fire safety release button as found on later Model 1898's. Some of the very early Model 1898's did not have that particular safety feature that was added to the guns a made later(about the first year after introduction). How this could affect things I am not sure, but you do have a problem and you need to check it out. I suggest you find a copy of the Brophy book and read the section on the exposed hammer pump shotguns. You will find instructions on taking the action down.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Thank you for the info.
Yes, I noticed several differences after comparing photos that I took to the ones in Mr. Smalser post. Most notable is that the recoil lock apears to be in a diffrent place. There isn't even a hole for the pin for it on the receiver. BTW, the barrel's s/n is 7219, and it has no letter denoting the choke.
I'm in Japan for some army reserve duty now, so I can't do anything until early September. Thank you again for the info, and I'll post what I find.
Yes, I noticed several differences after comparing photos that I took to the ones in Mr. Smalser post. Most notable is that the recoil lock apears to be in a diffrent place. There isn't even a hole for the pin for it on the receiver. BTW, the barrel's s/n is 7219, and it has no letter denoting the choke.
Are you talking about "Marlin Firearms: A History of the Guns and the Company That Made Them" by William Brophy?Regnier (gunrunner) wrote:Kenl;
... I suggest you find a copy of the Brophy book and read the section on the exposed hammer pump shotguns. You will find instructions on taking the action down.
I'm in Japan for some army reserve duty now, so I can't do anything until early September. Thank you again for the info, and I'll post what I find.
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
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Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Kenl;
That would be the Brophy book. If you do not want to buy a copy, you might want to have your local library find one on a lend program for you to look at when you get back home.
The change regarding the "hang fire" safety release was sometime after 1909. Some Model 24's have the early style, push button release whereas it is reported that some Model 24's have the later style that have the lever, down by the trigger guard. All exposed hammer shotguns used the newer style by the time the Model 30 came out in 1911.
As I stated earlier, your shotgun is early enough that it did not come out with the safety release button on the side of the receiver. There are instructions on releasing the action of your gun by pushing the firing pin with your thumb listed in the Brophy book as well.
Looking forward to hearing back from you when you get home......
That would be the Brophy book. If you do not want to buy a copy, you might want to have your local library find one on a lend program for you to look at when you get back home.
The change regarding the "hang fire" safety release was sometime after 1909. Some Model 24's have the early style, push button release whereas it is reported that some Model 24's have the later style that have the lever, down by the trigger guard. All exposed hammer shotguns used the newer style by the time the Model 30 came out in 1911.
As I stated earlier, your shotgun is early enough that it did not come out with the safety release button on the side of the receiver. There are instructions on releasing the action of your gun by pushing the firing pin with your thumb listed in the Brophy book as well.
Looking forward to hearing back from you when you get home......
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Got it home, and did some checking. Looks like no parts are missing (BTW, taking the parts names from an old Guns Parts Corp catalog).
I was able to get it completely assembled, but the action is very stiff, and the forend slide rod popped out of the locking bolt notch on the return stroke. Took it apart, and found that someone Tig-welded the bottom of the forend slide rod hook on the locking bolt, and left a 1/32" lump of excess metal on the receiver side of hook. The bottom of the hook was also sloppy-squared off, causing it to catch on the carrier.
Haven't had a chance to work on it, but I hope I found the problem. Is there any place else that i should look at?
Thank you for any input.
ken
I was able to get it completely assembled, but the action is very stiff, and the forend slide rod popped out of the locking bolt notch on the return stroke. Took it apart, and found that someone Tig-welded the bottom of the forend slide rod hook on the locking bolt, and left a 1/32" lump of excess metal on the receiver side of hook. The bottom of the hook was also sloppy-squared off, causing it to catch on the carrier.
Haven't had a chance to work on it, but I hope I found the problem. Is there any place else that i should look at?
Thank you for any input.
ken
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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- Posts: 4670
- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
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Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Ken;
If the slide stop is present, you should not be able to pull the slide arm out without "tipping" the slide stop into the notch in the slide bar as you would do to take the action down. The slide stop is there to keep the slide bar from being pulled or disengaging out when you pump the action to eject and reload the chamber. The slide stop normally rests in the notch in the barrel until you want to take the gun down, then you move the slide arm rearward slightly to line the slide stop up with the notch in the slide arm. You then "tip" the slide stop over into the notch in the slide arm and pull the slide (pump) arm forward to disengage the slide arm from the breech bolt.
For now, that is all I can think of to check on....
If the slide stop is present, you should not be able to pull the slide arm out without "tipping" the slide stop into the notch in the slide bar as you would do to take the action down. The slide stop is there to keep the slide bar from being pulled or disengaging out when you pump the action to eject and reload the chamber. The slide stop normally rests in the notch in the barrel until you want to take the gun down, then you move the slide arm rearward slightly to line the slide stop up with the notch in the slide arm. You then "tip" the slide stop over into the notch in the slide arm and pull the slide (pump) arm forward to disengage the slide arm from the breech bolt.
For now, that is all I can think of to check on....
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: impulse buy of a non-op 1898 (?)
Hi;
Was able to spend some time with this over the weekend. Stoned down the tig-weld, insured that the slid-stop was installed correctly. Can now cycle it without the slide rod popping out of the locking bolt notch, but action is still very stiff, especially at the beginning and end of the stroke. Think the problem is that it is just worn out. The pin on the locking bolt that cams the carrier isn't round. It has several pronounced flat spots, and I think the sharp edges are hanging things up. Does this sound like some of the problems that other people have encountered?
Don't know what to do now. Maybe I'll see if I can find a new locking bolt, see if I can make this one round, or just make it into a really cool wall hanger.
Thank you for all of your help.
Was able to spend some time with this over the weekend. Stoned down the tig-weld, insured that the slid-stop was installed correctly. Can now cycle it without the slide rod popping out of the locking bolt notch, but action is still very stiff, especially at the beginning and end of the stroke. Think the problem is that it is just worn out. The pin on the locking bolt that cams the carrier isn't round. It has several pronounced flat spots, and I think the sharp edges are hanging things up. Does this sound like some of the problems that other people have encountered?
Don't know what to do now. Maybe I'll see if I can find a new locking bolt, see if I can make this one round, or just make it into a really cool wall hanger.
Thank you for all of your help.