Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Anything Shot Gun related

Moderators: Regnier (gunrunner), JohnK, Sure-Shot

Post Reply
trelk743
Beginner
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by trelk743 »

Hello all, I'm a newbie with some questions that searches haven't answered

I have a 'New to Me' shotgun I think is 1898 or 16, it is 16 ga. I bought it 'For Parts' last week at Gunbroker. Ser # 61663, barrel #64022F. Pat. are Nov 6 1894 May & June 1896. Two line roll stamped. Top of barrel by receiver is stamped 16.Ga. Nothing about smokeless steel. It has push button bolt release and magazine take down.
Is 1903-4 approximate dom?

When I received the gun the knob on the action bar was not engaged with the bolt. The knob was to large to get out of the receiver and I ground off some material to get action bar out. I can't imagine how it got in that way or what happened to get it out of shape, anyway. The action bar was not straight and had twist. I improved the straightness of the bar, smoothed the knob and assembled the action.

I now have action bar and bolt traveling together and working it with no lube. The strength needed to work the action is very high. It's moderate until the shell lifter rotates, then it is rather stiff. I am working it without a forend, which is in 3 pieces and was wired onto the magazine when purchased.

So, how would you rate the force typically needed to work this action. ?

I have a Rem 17 and Savage 520 that might be 20 to 30 years younger that this 1898. They are no different than an 870.

Also, a 16 ga shell in the chamber has a lot of slop. I measure the chamber Dia at .753 and a new shell is .7425 with my cheap micrometer.
I estimate the chamber is 3 inches deep. I suspect it was reamed and deepened.
I want to shoot it a little. Would you shoot it ?

Thanks to the moderators for all the work you do here.
Regnier (gunrunner)
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 4444
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Trelk743;

The records show that your Marlin Model 16 was shipped late 1906 with a 28 inch barrel. Your barrel is the original barrel the gun was shipped with. This is an "A" grade shotgun, and would not have had a Special Smokeless Steel barrel.
You should not have ground on the action bar to remove the action bar from the receiver. There is a foreend slide stop that is on the side of the barrel (up against the barrel lock nut) that prevents the action bar from disengaging the breech bolt and coming out of the receiver. That stop has to be aligned with a notch in the action bar when it is moved rearward slightly and then the slide stop tipped out into the notch, and then the action bar can be moved forward to disengage from the breech bolt and come out of the receiver. Without the slide stop, the action bar will always disengage from the breech bolt and come out of the receiver when the action is worked. It may be that at some point in time, the slide stop was lost and the local gunsmith added some material to the action bar in an attempt to make the gun work.
From your description of the barrel chamber, someone wanted to shoot longer shells than the gun was made for. The original barrel was made to shoot a 2 5/8 inch shell. The diameter of a 16 gauge shell is supposed to be .735 inches. If your chamber is .753, then it has been reamed oversize and I definitely would not shoot it.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
trelk743
Beginner
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by trelk743 »

Thanks for your time on this gunrunner

The slide stop is working just fine , I got to know it well. The size and ugly nature of the knob at the working end of the action bar was bigger the slot in the receiver. The knob had the appearance of metal splatter or slag. it was not coming out of receiver without material being removed.

At this time the action works but with great force. So, how would you rate the force typically needed to work this action. ?

I cleaned receiver and most parts. I leaved the bolt assembled and soaked it far a day. The hammer falls while holding trigger and closing bolt. But I hope that will correct itself when I receive a hammer with good sear surface.

I appreciate your help
Regnier (gunrunner)
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 4444
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Trelk743;

If the hammer is following the breech bolt on closing the action while holding the trigger, then the secondary safety sear has failed. That usually caused by the small spring on the sear breaks and the safety does not work properly. When the secondary safety sear is working properly, it engages a notch on the hammer and it takes the locking bolt of the breech bolt to lock into position to set the secondary safety sear off and make the gun ready to fire.
The action should not work all that hard. It should be relatively smooth as well. If everything is properly clean and working properly, these guns are safe using light loads.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Regnier (gunrunner)
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 4444
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Trelk743;

There is a complete secondary safety sear on eBay right now. Item # 173882271353
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
trelk743
Beginner
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by trelk743 »

Thanks for the heads-up on the sear available on eBay. It looks exactly like the one in my M16.
My question today is about the recoil block, my unit came with the one piece design, but the spring has failed. On eBay I see an item that is listed as a Model 16, but that block has the slot to hold a second piece with the hook. eBay also lists a 1898 unit that is a one piece design like I have in the model 16 I'm working on.
Does a Model 16 use the one piece or 2 piece recoil block?
Regnier (gunrunner)
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 4444
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Trelk743;

The Model 16 uses the 2 piece recoil safety block. The push button on the side of the receiver pushes the safety hook off of the breech bolt locking bolt and allows the action to open.
The one piece design was used on the later models. The release on those models is down by the trigger guard. I do not know if the one piece design would work in the earlier models that utilized the 2 piece safety block.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
trelk743
Beginner
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by trelk743 »

I am attaching pics of the parts that came with gun, and a parts diagram (model 16 is not listed but I think that must be an oversight).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7pt560i9zguy ... 5.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y8sgrgl614syy ... t.jpg?dl=0
webpage doesn't like these links, maybe you can copy to browser

If I understand correctly, the recoil block I have is not correct and that I need the parts 54M & 57M as shown on the diagram. And I assume part 53 is for later models. Is that right?

One more item, the mag tube has a large hole worn in by the bolts of the forend. Any chance a 20ga tube would work?
Regnier (gunrunner)
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 4444
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Newbie with 1898 or 16 ? ?

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Trelk743;

You are correct in that the parts you mention are the correct recoil block and safety hook for a Model 16. The reason the Model 16 was not mentioned is because the Model 16 was not a 12 gauge and that is what the parts listed were for. The main difference between the Model 16 and the other models was the receiver. Marlin made a smaller receiver for the 16 & 20 gauge guns. Many of the other parts were interchangeable. Part #53 is the later style, like you have. Did the "Hang Fire Safety Release" work properly on this gun before you took it apart? The gun should only open after the "Hang Fire Safety Release" button is pressed in.
Not sure if a 20 gauge tube will work, but I suspect it should. The receivers were the same, so the tubes may have been.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Post Reply