Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

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Zan King
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Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Zan King » Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:19 am

Need help...after HOURS of research AND taking this shotgun to a "pro at a gun shop," I still need help!!

Please..don't laugh, as I know NOTHING about guns...but this is a family heirloom with a good story (my grandfather defended a man and prevented him from being executed, this was what my grand-dad rec'd as "payment." His client was a poor, illiterate farmer and so this gun would have meant the world to him and being able to put food on the table.)

Marked on the barrel: Marlin Firearms Co. New Haven, Conn USA (btw the expert didn't even see this on the barrel..said it was a Winchester)
A bunch of dates: Pat'd Apr 2, 1889, Nov 6, 1894, May 12, 1896, June 2, 1896, Nov 27, 1900, March 29, 1904, Nov 29, 1904
Another Mark : 12 G
Some numbers: 77291 (on 2 parts of the main metal body)
Barrel...is very long and I can not find any numbers there...there may be some number under the pump slide, but it seems like this is frozen up
Over all the gun is very plain (no etchings, etc.)

I am pretty sure is it unsafe, but an excellent "wall hanger" with a good story. I still would like to verify, as close to possible the exact year/model as I plan on shipping this to my uncle. (I HAVE to ship to a licensed dealer, correct? Going from Texas to Maryland)

Will post pictures if necessary, but it is a pretty plain gun.

Thank you,
Zan

Brent
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Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Brent » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:09 am

the fact that the pump is "frozen up" and the fact that you say you know nothing about firearms makes me want to ask that you know FOR SURE that it is unloaded.

you do not need an FFL to ship it to your uncle. if you are selling it to him, HE will need and FFL and you will ship to the FFL directly where he will pick up.

You may use priority mail to send it.

Brent
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Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Brent » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:10 am

Before you send it, you might pull the buttplate off and look underneath. There is a very small probability that something is under there.

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:12 am

Zan;

Look at the upper tang, behind the hammer for a model marking. From the patent dates you list, it could be a version of the Model 19 or Model 21. There should be a model marking on both of those models, which helps identify your shotgun. There are several versions of the Model 19, there is a Model 19, 19N, 19S, 19D, and 19G. I suspect it is a Model 19 from the serial number.
There is a visual difference the Model 19 and 21 in that the Model 19 has a pistol grip stock and the Model 21 has a straight grip stock at the wrist of the stock, where the tangs of the receiver meet the butt stock.
Both guns have a takedown action, in that the gun will break down into two sections. Barrel section and butt stock/receiver section.
Your gun will not open because there is a "hang fire safety" device that has to be operated in order to open the action. There is either a small button on the right side of the receiver, up near the hammer (Model 21 and some versions and Model 19), or a lever down by the trigger guard (some versions of the Model 19) that has to be either pushed (button) or pulled back (lever) then then the pump slide moved backward in order to open the action. Look to see that there are no shells in the magazine tube before opening the action. You can see inside the magazine tube from the bottom opening where you load the shotgun.
Yes, you would have to have your uncle receive the shotgun from an FFL dealer. He would need to find a dealer that would accept the package from you. You do not have to go through a dealer to send it.
Looking forward to your reply.......
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Zan King
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Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Zan King » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:37 am

Oh my..such quick answers....Thank you!!

I found a different set of numbers on the barrel...74663F (full choke?)

I took this to a "gun dealer"..who is a "pro" at identifying "old guns." He did NOT even see the Marlin info. on the barrel...he told me it was either a "Marlin" or an old "Winchester." Sheesh, so much for "pros." That said...he stated it was empty..no shells

The "pump" has the vertical lines going around, as opposed to "hatch marks."

At this time..and I have looked ALL OVER..I have NOT found any other numbers like 19S, etc. Nothing that says Trap gun or anything else..

Thank you,
Zan

Zan King
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Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Zan King » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:10 am

Another update....
Took gun outside and aimed it at the sky (even at 60 I remember my dad saying to never point a gun at anything or any person when testing it...)
I was able to get the pump to slide back which opened up the gun....there are NO SHELLS in it...lol...
Even with it opened up ..there are no identifying marks, numbers, etc.

Still working on getting pics uploaded...

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:19 am

Zan;

Since you find no model markings, there is another possibility that it is a Marlin Model 1898, that has had a "newer" barrel installed from either a Model 19 or Model 21. The barrels from this era were interchangeable with other models. The Model 1898 was not marked with a model marking.
Then too, it could be an early Model 19, made before the roll die used to mark the upper tang was made up. At this point, it is hard to say for sure. From outward appearances, it is hard to tell the difference between a Model 1898 receiver and a Model 19 receiver unless the Model 19 is marked.
I have a Model 1898 with a serial number in the 75,000 range, which is not to far from your serial number, so you may well have a Model 1898 with the "newer" replacement barrel. Without factory records above 67,000, we cannot know for sure. The records do reflect the receiver serial number and barrel number. Your gun could be late enough that the factory installed the present barrel, but as stated before, we cannot know for sure.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.


Zan King
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Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Zan King » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:56 am

My grand-father received this gun in 1941, and the last date on the barrel is 1904.

It seems that most years there were better marks and model numbers on most of the Marlins.
It looks like, the better guns, the fancy engraved ones, the "tournament" ones or the C and D grade guns had better marks, even from this time period.
This gun is just basic...not fancy...it was a "poor mans" gun.
Due to the fact that there are not many identifying marks, is it possible that this gun was either a throw-away or an orphan of sorts?
Could the original owner have had parts switched out if they failed or malfunctioned?

So reasonable best guess is a later 1898 or an early 19?

Here is a link to the pics that I took..http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/ZanKi ... t=3&page=1

Thank you to all!!
Susan Zan King

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:11 pm

Zan;

Your shotgun is definitely a standard or "A" grade gun. It most likely is a Model 1898 from what I can see in the photos.
You are missing the front two trigger guard screws and one of the screws from the forearm.
As stated before, the barrels between most models are interchangeable, so the original owner may have needed a new barrel for whatever reason and got a later barrel for his shotgun. It is not all that unusual to see such a thing.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Zan King
Beginner
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Zan King » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:21 pm

Gunrunner..Thank you!!

This is good enough info to get it shipped and so that my uncle and cousin know what to research.
I did notice 3 screws missing, and have seen some warnings about this model or a similar model that had firing issues and shouldn't be used.
It is full of sticky gunk and dust, and I hope it will "just be a wall hanger" but will let the boys on the other side of the family decide.

Thank you again for your quick responses!!

Susan Zan King

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Posts: 4216
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:22 pm

Susan;

Yes, there are warnings about shooting these old shotguns. EVERYTHING must be in proper working order for them to be safe to shoot, low pressure ammunition.
It sounds like it needs a good cleaning, and these things are a little difficult to take apart and put back together. I know the first time I re-assembled one, the language got a little colorful at times.

Good luck with everything...........
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Zan King
Beginner
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Old Marlin 12G Pump 1898? Need ID Help

Post by Zan King » Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:50 pm

Gunrunner..
Thank you so much...lol, we are a family with an aptitude for "colorful language!"

And to Brent, also, thank you for advice!

I'm sure the Uncle and Cousin will enjoy it. I have copy/pasted all of the details and I found the "warning" post that Marlin issued back in 1998.
They are very prudent men (not to mention very bright) so hopefully "armed" with good information, they can choose whether to service it and shoot it..or hang on a wall!!

You guys are awesome!!

SZK

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