Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

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victorio1sw
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Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by victorio1sw »

After reading replies in this forum, what was thought to be a Marlin Model 30 slide action 16 gauge shotgun is actually an early production Model 16. The top of the barrel reads "Marlin Fire-Arms Co. New Haven CT. U.S.A. / Pat'd Nov 6, 1884, May 12, 1896, & June 2, 1896". Just in front of the receiver is "16. Ga.". The left side of the barrel is stamped "Special Smokeless Steel". There is no model stamped on the upper tang. This shotgun is engraved, with fancy wood, chequered pistol grip, and "Marlin" hard rubber buttplate. The serial number appears to be 114704. The number on the barrel does not match.

Are there any factory records on this shotgun? Would the Cody Museum have these records? When was it manufactured? What does the barrel number indicate? Are these safe to shoot? Are any screws and other parts available for this hammer shotgun?
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Victorio1sw;

Your Marlin Model 16 exposed hammer pump action shotgun most likely is a "C" Grade gun since it has the Special Smokeless Steel barrel. There are some records for the Marlin hammer shotguns, but not many. The existing records end at 67,000 in 1904, so your serial number is to high for the existing records. Cody will not be able to help. I would estimate your gun to have been made around 1910, which was the last year of production of the Model 16. A "C" Grade Model 16 would have sold for $43.00 in 1910.
The barrel serial number will never match the gun, but was listed with the receiver serial number in the records when the gun was shipped.
Numrich Gun Pars Corporation does have some parts for the early, exposed hammer shotguns, and many of the parts are interchangable from the 16 gauge and 12 gauge guns, so if you do not see the part you need listed in the Model 16 parts listing, check some of the 12 gauge listings.
These guns can be made safe to shoot, but only light loads. Check the very first post of the Shotgun Section for what is necessary to make the guns safe.
Good luck..........
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
victorio1sw
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by victorio1sw »

Regnier (gunrunner)

I have noticed that in some previous replies in this forum that you have provided some essential information, such as the factory-recorded barrel number for a shotgun such as mine. Do you then have access to some Marlin factory records? Are you perhaps the author of the Marlin book?

I can send some pictures of my shotgun, but would only send them directly to you as a private email. Can you make this possible? I can provide my 50 year collecting resume, plus references, if you desire prior to any direct emailing.

Please advise.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Victorio1sw;

I do have access to the old Marlin factory records for both lever action rifles made prior to 1906 and the Marlin pump action shotguns bwetween serial numbers 19,600 and 67,000. I am not the author of the Marlin book, but I did contribute to it and own some guns pictured in the book.
I will email you my email address if you want to send pictures of your "C" Grade Marlin shotgun. I have several shotguns myself.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
victorio1sw
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by victorio1sw »

Regnier (gunrunner),

I have just now found your 3 replies. If you want to provide your email address, then we can exchange pictures.

In the meantime look at GunBroker Auction # 411226530. This SN 114699 is only 5 numbers from mine, and is identical in all features, including the engraving patterns. The barrel number on this one happens to match the frame SN.

I bought Brophy's book on Marlin firearms, but the section covering these shotguns seems very confusing (at least to me).
victorio1sw
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by victorio1sw »

Regnier (gunrunner)

I TRIED TO REPLY YESTERDAY, BUT DO NOT SEE MY POST ABOUT 24 HOURS LATER.

IF YOU CAN SUPPLY YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS, THEN WE CAN TRADE PICTURES. THERE IS A SHOTGUN ON GUNBROKER RIGHT NOW THAT IS EXACTLY LIKE MINE, AND WITH A SN VERY CLOSE TO MINE.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Victorio1sw;

Sorry for not responding sooner, I have been out of town. I emailed my email address to you.
I have seen the guns on Gun Broker, and are very nice guns. ( Model 24 D Grade and another engraved shotgun, the model I do not remember right now) Both look like very nice pieces for a collector to pick up.
I do find the matching serial number of the barrel and receiver interesting, but I am not sure that the barrel numbers are original to that barrel. They (the numbers) look a little suspicious to me.
Brophy's book can be a little confusing because his original intent was to write a book just on the lever guns. But management at Marlin insisted that he cover all aspects of the company and the product lines. Therefore, some material was gathered rather quickly, and in many cases incomplete or a little off the real world picture. If you have any specific questions, I would try to help.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Johnny66
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Johnny66 »

I have one of these guns I dont know much about it my serial number is A 19428.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Johnny66;

Is this a Model 16, or a 16 gauge Model 30? The "A" serial number prefix would tend to indicate it should be a Model 30, but it could be a "leftover" Model 16 that was assembled in 1916 by either the Marlin Arms Corporation or Marlin-Rockwell Corporation after the takeover of the old Marlin Firearms Company.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
JimmyM65
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by JimmyM65 »

I have what seems to be one of these, but I am unsure if it is. This is a gun that my dad had as long as I can remember, but he passed a couple of years back and now I have it. I don't know where or when he got it. It has the info on top of the barrel and it IS a 16 gauge. The number on the receiver is 5781 and the barrel has 5835. If you want me to send pictures, let me know what parts of the gun and I can do that. There are a couple of screws that need to be replaced and I am having a hard time finding replacements. ANY information would be greatly appreciated.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

JimmyM65;

Check the upper tang, behind the hammer for a model marking. The Model 16 will be unmarked, but the Model 30 will have a model marking at that location. The serial number would tend to indicate this is a later gun made after 1916. A listing of all the barrel markings ( Company name and patent dates ) will help also.
If Numrich Gun Parts Corporation does not have the parts you need, then watch eBay. Parts show up there quite often.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
JimmyM65
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:58 pm

Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by JimmyM65 »

Thanks for the quick reply.

I could not find any mark on the tang. The barrel marking looks like "Marlin Fire-Arms Co. New Haven CT. U.S.A. / Pat'd Nov 6, 1894, May 12, 1896, & June 2, 1899" with a design almost like a sunburst at each end of the marking.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

JimmyM65;

Those patent dates are the same ones utilized on both the Model 1898 and Model 16. The last patent date is really June 2, 1896.
With no model marking, and those patent dates, you should have a Model 16, but the serial numbers do not fit into the Model 16 production figures. The Model 16 did not come out until 1903, and the serial numbers would have been much higher than those stated. With about 3 1/2 years of production of the Model 1898 ahead of the Model 16, serial numbers of the Model 16 should start above the 55,000 range. Hopefully, you missed a number when you recorded the serial number. If you did, then we might be able to check the records for information.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
JimmyM65
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:58 pm

Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by JimmyM65 »

I can't figure out how to post the pictures or you could look at the photos yourself. If you want me to send them to you directly, I do know how to do that.

I rechecked the numbers and even had my wife look at them and she came up with the same as me, 5781 and 5835 and they are deep enough that any other numbers should show up easily. Still can't see any marking on the upper tang either. I took the stock off and the lower tang has the same number, 5781, on the side of it. I will try putting some solvent on it to help clean down to the bare metal.

I don't want to sell it, just want to replace some screws and make sure it is safe to fire without spending an arm and a leg. That being said, I would like to know just how old it is. Again, thanks for any info and help in determining that.
JimmyM65
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Re: Early Marlin Model 16 Pump Shotgun

Post by JimmyM65 »

I feel so embarrassed. After giving the gun a good cleaning, I bought some 16 gauge shells. As soon as I opened the box I thought they looked a bit small. So, the gun is a 12 gauge. Do the numbers and markings make more sense in this context?
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