Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Moderators: Regnier (gunrunner), JohnK, Sure-Shot
Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
I know that Marlin Model 90 O/U's made in 1939 and possibly through 1941 had a bird dog scene stamped on the frame. Does anyone know if Sears Ranger Model 90's made between 1939 -1941 also had the bird dog scene?
BarkeyVA
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
BarkeyVA;
The person you need to ask lives in Wisconsin. I think you know him........
The person you need to ask lives in Wisconsin. I think you know him........
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Yes, I talked to our mutual friend in Wisconsin before I posted my question here and he does not know the answer.
I'd also like to know for sure if Marlin stamped the bird dog scene on ALL 1939-1941 Model 90's. Perhaps someone with old Marlin catalogs from from those years can answer that. Knowing this information will help me bracket when some of my pre-WWII model 90's wer made (1937-1938 or 1939-1941)
It's my understanding that Marlin introduced the .410 in 1939 but I have a pre-WWII .410 Model 90 that does not have the bird dog scene. (My gun appears to have been re-finished at some point so I suppose it is possible that the stamping was worn off in the process).
I'd also like to know for sure if Marlin stamped the bird dog scene on ALL 1939-1941 Model 90's. Perhaps someone with old Marlin catalogs from from those years can answer that. Knowing this information will help me bracket when some of my pre-WWII model 90's wer made (1937-1938 or 1939-1941)
It's my understanding that Marlin introduced the .410 in 1939 but I have a pre-WWII .410 Model 90 that does not have the bird dog scene. (My gun appears to have been re-finished at some point so I suppose it is possible that the stamping was worn off in the process).
BarkeyVA
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
BarkeyVA;
I looked at what few catalogs from that period I have, and found the following:
A flyer/catalog with the "new" Model 90 on the back says the 16 & 20 gauge will be available September 1, 1937 and illustrates the Model 90 with the flying ducks.
A catalog with price list dated July 1, 1940 show the Model 90 with the dog scene.
A catalog with a price list dated November 24, 1941 shows the Model 90 with no engraving.
That is all I can help you with. I hope it helps.
I looked at what few catalogs from that period I have, and found the following:
A flyer/catalog with the "new" Model 90 on the back says the 16 & 20 gauge will be available September 1, 1937 and illustrates the Model 90 with the flying ducks.
A catalog with price list dated July 1, 1940 show the Model 90 with the dog scene.
A catalog with a price list dated November 24, 1941 shows the Model 90 with no engraving.
That is all I can help you with. I hope it helps.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
This very helpful.
There is a picture of a model 90 with the flying ducks in Brophy's book. Interestingly, I have a very early Sears 12 ga. Ranger 103.1 model 90 with the 1st generation forearm. The top lever is attached to the frame with a exposed flat-head screw. It does not have the duck scene. Ron has a Marlin Model 90 just like it. I need to ask him if his has the duck scene.
Ron told me that the dog scene was introduced in 1939. I have a .22/.410 combo with the dog scene. Based on your Nov. 1941 catalog, it is possible that my .410 model 90 without the dog scene was made in 1941.
There is a picture of a model 90 with the flying ducks in Brophy's book. Interestingly, I have a very early Sears 12 ga. Ranger 103.1 model 90 with the 1st generation forearm. The top lever is attached to the frame with a exposed flat-head screw. It does not have the duck scene. Ron has a Marlin Model 90 just like it. I need to ask him if his has the duck scene.
Ron told me that the dog scene was introduced in 1939. I have a .22/.410 combo with the dog scene. Based on your Nov. 1941 catalog, it is possible that my .410 model 90 without the dog scene was made in 1941.
BarkeyVA
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
I was mistaken about there being a picture of a Marlin model 90 with th duck scene in Brophy's book. However, there is a 12 ga. model 90 with the duck scene for sale on GunBroker ( http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =275666602 ) It is the first one I've seen.
BarkeyVA
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
BarkeyVA;
To bad someone screwed up the wood. Otherwise it would be a nice piece to add to a collection of Model 90's.
To bad someone screwed up the wood. Otherwise it would be a nice piece to add to a collection of Model 90's.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Someone wanted it. It sold for $605!! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =275666602
BarkeyVA
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Here is another Model 90 (12 ga., 30" barrels) with the flying ducks on the frame being offered for sale on Gunbroker. This one is in poor condition. Interesting that I had never seen one, and now two show up in the same month! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =278176853
BarkeyVA
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Regnier (gunrunner)
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- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Barkey;
The metal does not look all that bad, again, it is the wood that needs some help. There are guys out there that could make that wood a whole lot better, at least until a better example comes along. Who knows, the price might be right.
The metal does not look all that bad, again, it is the wood that needs some help. There are guys out there that could make that wood a whole lot better, at least until a better example comes along. Who knows, the price might be right.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.
If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
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zoli 16ga.
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
May be a tough task, or already done, but has a list been created of 'family owned' Rangers with serial numbers and remembered date of purchase created?
Did Sears checker their guns, with a different checkering pattern, before '45? Brophy's book said 'Marlins' were not chekered prior to '45.
What I 'think' I know about my Ranger Model 103-6 20ga. DT, 28", with solid mid rib.
• I do not know when the gun was made.
• Marlin 20 Ga. guns were introduced in 1937
• Serial # R over 2342. All iron serial numbers match, even the extractor.
• Apparently, there are no Sears Ranger serial number records.
• For what it's worth - 1937 Tom Mix's specail serial # is 1390, mine is 2342, which puts it 952 guns after 1937??? May mean nothing at all.
• Barrel marked as such - Ranger Over and Under
-20 Gauge Model 103-6-
• Barrel stampings - JM in an oval, and an X
• Action stamped inside with a 'J' only.
• The red recoil pad is marked Ranger, with a duck above, and the number 1 below on it.
• The top of the barrel has a matted (XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) stamping down the center, single bead. The top barrel is choked tighter then the bottom. I do not have a gauge, but the bottom has very little choke and the top seems to have twice as much, as found using a homemade 'feeler' type gauge. I'd say IC and Mod. (That would be nice, and yes, I will pattern it first chance I get).
• Solid mid-rib makes it pre 1950
• Model 90's were marked 'Ranger' prior to WWII. In 1945 and after, Sears guns were also marked 'Marlin'. So mine must be prior to 1945 at the very least, I'd say 1941.
• Ole Horsrud's patent of 1945 shows a screw holding the top lever on. Mine has no screw, so it is either prior to the patent, or the design was modified after he got the patent(?) So mine must be 19..??
• 1945 and after, Sears guns were also marked 'Marlin'. So mine must be prior to 1945
• 'Very early' (first variation) forend iron did not extend to the top of the frame. Third variation had a latch mechanism starting in 1951. Mine does not have a latch, but the iron goes to the top of the frame, so it's the second variation. So mine is between 1938(?) and 1951?
• Wood was not checkered prior to 1945. Mine is checkered, both grip and forend. Which means it was made after 1945, or new(er) stock and forend put on. The forend seems to have been milled out for a longer forend iron, so it may have been replaced? The pistol grip checkering does not look typical of others I have seen (no V behind the grip), so it may have been added, making it prior to 1945(?)
• No engraving on the action, which puts it after 1939.
So, having noted all of that, I would place it as being made between 1939 (after engraving stopped) and pre-war 1941. Someone checkered the stock, and replaced the forend wood.
After doing a few calculations regarding total numbers produced, numbers and percentages produced in 20ga. DT, 28" (vs. other gauges, Marlin, higgins and Sears), there appears to be around, something like maybe, 525 Ranger 20ga. DT 28" guns produced. I think it may be a rare gun, not very valuable mind you, but rare nonetheless.
Regarding my rattling cocking lever, I have since found that the cocking lever spring is housed in the trigger guard. I will take mine off and see if the spring is in there, or broken. I have found no diagrams of this assembly (cocking lever spring), so I'm wondering if anyone has checked or replaced theirs?
Don.
Did Sears checker their guns, with a different checkering pattern, before '45? Brophy's book said 'Marlins' were not chekered prior to '45.
What I 'think' I know about my Ranger Model 103-6 20ga. DT, 28", with solid mid rib.
• I do not know when the gun was made.
• Marlin 20 Ga. guns were introduced in 1937
• Serial # R over 2342. All iron serial numbers match, even the extractor.
• Apparently, there are no Sears Ranger serial number records.
• For what it's worth - 1937 Tom Mix's specail serial # is 1390, mine is 2342, which puts it 952 guns after 1937??? May mean nothing at all.
• Barrel marked as such - Ranger Over and Under
-20 Gauge Model 103-6-
• Barrel stampings - JM in an oval, and an X
• Action stamped inside with a 'J' only.
• The red recoil pad is marked Ranger, with a duck above, and the number 1 below on it.
• The top of the barrel has a matted (XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) stamping down the center, single bead. The top barrel is choked tighter then the bottom. I do not have a gauge, but the bottom has very little choke and the top seems to have twice as much, as found using a homemade 'feeler' type gauge. I'd say IC and Mod. (That would be nice, and yes, I will pattern it first chance I get).
• Solid mid-rib makes it pre 1950
• Model 90's were marked 'Ranger' prior to WWII. In 1945 and after, Sears guns were also marked 'Marlin'. So mine must be prior to 1945 at the very least, I'd say 1941.
• Ole Horsrud's patent of 1945 shows a screw holding the top lever on. Mine has no screw, so it is either prior to the patent, or the design was modified after he got the patent(?) So mine must be 19..??
• 1945 and after, Sears guns were also marked 'Marlin'. So mine must be prior to 1945
• 'Very early' (first variation) forend iron did not extend to the top of the frame. Third variation had a latch mechanism starting in 1951. Mine does not have a latch, but the iron goes to the top of the frame, so it's the second variation. So mine is between 1938(?) and 1951?
• Wood was not checkered prior to 1945. Mine is checkered, both grip and forend. Which means it was made after 1945, or new(er) stock and forend put on. The forend seems to have been milled out for a longer forend iron, so it may have been replaced? The pistol grip checkering does not look typical of others I have seen (no V behind the grip), so it may have been added, making it prior to 1945(?)
• No engraving on the action, which puts it after 1939.
So, having noted all of that, I would place it as being made between 1939 (after engraving stopped) and pre-war 1941. Someone checkered the stock, and replaced the forend wood.
After doing a few calculations regarding total numbers produced, numbers and percentages produced in 20ga. DT, 28" (vs. other gauges, Marlin, higgins and Sears), there appears to be around, something like maybe, 525 Ranger 20ga. DT 28" guns produced. I think it may be a rare gun, not very valuable mind you, but rare nonetheless.
Regarding my rattling cocking lever, I have since found that the cocking lever spring is housed in the trigger guard. I will take mine off and see if the spring is in there, or broken. I have found no diagrams of this assembly (cocking lever spring), so I'm wondering if anyone has checked or replaced theirs?
Don.
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Very early Model 90's and Rangrs did have the lever arm attached to the frame with a visible flathead screw. I have a 12 ga. Ranger 103.1, serial number 188x. with an exposed lever screw. It also has the first generation forearm.
2 early model 90's with the exposed lever screw and 1st generation forearm have come up for sale recently on GunBroker that have an oval with flying ducks on the frame. There is picture of it in Brophy's book on page 414. My Ranger 103.1 is not engraved. The cocking lever in shown in the picture on p. 414 is the same design as yours.
R above the serial number indicates it is a Ranger. After WWII Sears marketed them as the JC Higgins 103.xxx. I have a 16 ga. JC Higgins 103.360 with 'P' serial number made in 1957 that does not have any checkering. All of my Marlin Model 90's made after WWII have checkering.
According to Ron Borko, a member of the Marlin Firearms Collectors Association, Marlin did offer checkering as an extra cost option prior to WWII. I have a pre-WWII .410 Model 90 (introduced in 1939) that has the same checkering pattern as my Skeetking, a special order gun that was only sold in 1939 and 1940.
Although Brophy writes on page 418 that Marlin did not mark the choke designation on the Model 90's, all of my pre-WWII Rangers and model 90's except my Skeetking have the choke designation (M and F or I and M) marked on the left side of of the barrels close to the chamber-end "locking lug."
According to another member of the Marlin Firearms Collectors Association, Marlin catalogs in 1939 and 1940 show Model 90's with a bird dog scene on the frame but not in the 1941 catalog. However, I do not know if any of the Sears Rangers made during those years have that engraving.
Ole's original patent was filed in 1939 and issued in 1945. Marlin engineers made a number of changes to what was ultimately introduced to the market place.
According to what I've read, 16 and 20 ga M90's were introduced in the Fall of 1937.
Marlin started making 12 ga. model 90's with the opening between the barrels in 1947 (D serial number) because I have one. I have heard from 2 other Model 90 owners who have a 12 ga .made in 1947 with open barrels. I also have a 16 ga. D serial number that has the rib beteen the barrels. I know of others who have Model 90's with F serial number made in 1949 that have open barrels. All of my Model 90's made in 1950 or later are open.
There are still a lot of unknowns and many apparent descrepancies regarding these interesting guns because there are no records remaining at Marlin or, apparently, anywhere else.
2 early model 90's with the exposed lever screw and 1st generation forearm have come up for sale recently on GunBroker that have an oval with flying ducks on the frame. There is picture of it in Brophy's book on page 414. My Ranger 103.1 is not engraved. The cocking lever in shown in the picture on p. 414 is the same design as yours.
R above the serial number indicates it is a Ranger. After WWII Sears marketed them as the JC Higgins 103.xxx. I have a 16 ga. JC Higgins 103.360 with 'P' serial number made in 1957 that does not have any checkering. All of my Marlin Model 90's made after WWII have checkering.
According to Ron Borko, a member of the Marlin Firearms Collectors Association, Marlin did offer checkering as an extra cost option prior to WWII. I have a pre-WWII .410 Model 90 (introduced in 1939) that has the same checkering pattern as my Skeetking, a special order gun that was only sold in 1939 and 1940.
Although Brophy writes on page 418 that Marlin did not mark the choke designation on the Model 90's, all of my pre-WWII Rangers and model 90's except my Skeetking have the choke designation (M and F or I and M) marked on the left side of of the barrels close to the chamber-end "locking lug."
According to another member of the Marlin Firearms Collectors Association, Marlin catalogs in 1939 and 1940 show Model 90's with a bird dog scene on the frame but not in the 1941 catalog. However, I do not know if any of the Sears Rangers made during those years have that engraving.
Ole's original patent was filed in 1939 and issued in 1945. Marlin engineers made a number of changes to what was ultimately introduced to the market place.
According to what I've read, 16 and 20 ga M90's were introduced in the Fall of 1937.
Marlin started making 12 ga. model 90's with the opening between the barrels in 1947 (D serial number) because I have one. I have heard from 2 other Model 90 owners who have a 12 ga .made in 1947 with open barrels. I also have a 16 ga. D serial number that has the rib beteen the barrels. I know of others who have Model 90's with F serial number made in 1949 that have open barrels. All of my Model 90's made in 1950 or later are open.
There are still a lot of unknowns and many apparent descrepancies regarding these interesting guns because there are no records remaining at Marlin or, apparently, anywhere else.
BarkeyVA
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zoli 16ga.
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
The only consistent thing I see about Ranger, Higgins, and Marlin mod 90's is that they are greatly inconsistent!
So what year would you place mine in - '37 to '41? I can now assume it was special ordered with a recoil pad, and checkering?
Arrrrrrh...still haven't shot this ol' girl yet!
Don.
So what year would you place mine in - '37 to '41? I can now assume it was special ordered with a recoil pad, and checkering?
Arrrrrrh...still haven't shot this ol' girl yet!
Don.
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Parley Baer
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Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
You need to write up that information and submit it to the "Marlin Collector" so that everyone will see it. Also it might find its way into print. I am close to submitting some of my findings on the Marlin 93 to the "Marlin Collector". On of the things is I feel pretty confident about is that aboaut 73% of the Model 93s were chambered for the 30-30 cartridge for example. I am getting a good handle on barrel lengths and shapes as an example.
It's a chancey job and it makes a man watchfull....and a little lonely.
Re: Question about Sears Ranger Model 90's
Let us know how it shoots!zoli 16ga. wrote:The only consistent thing I see about Ranger, Higgins, and Marlin mod 90's is that they are greatly inconsistent!
So what year would you place mine in - '37 to '41? I can now assume it was special ordered with a recoil pad, and checkering?
Arrrrrrh...still haven't shot this ol' girl yet!Don.
Unless someone else has more information, between 1937 and 1941 is probably as close as you can get. Too bad that Marlin did not keep serial number records.
I'll send photos of my pre-WWII Skeetking and .410 Model 90's to see if the checkering pattern on your gun looks the same. the photos I posted on Photobucket are too large for this site.
BarkeyVA