444

Anthing you think is a big bore

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mainiac
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444

Post by mainiac » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:13 pm

Considering this a Marlin group I hope you all will excuse me for what I'm bout to write. Several years ago I bought a new Marlin 444, around 1979 if I remember correctly. I hunted with it for a few years but due to a back problem found I couldn't carry that much weight. Loaded that sucker was heavy. I traded it but missed the horsepower that big bore carried with it. Now for the hard part, lol. I bought another 444 6 years ago in the other lever brand. (dare I say Winchester?) Anyway, it's a little 94 black shadow that weighs in 6lbs even. I don't think it is as accurate as the Marlin but it will shoot better than I can. I did find a problem using 265 gr bullets. The overall legnth is too long to cycle through the action. 370gr did the same. I did find a solution to that problem. Does this problem exist with Marlins also. I never did reload for my Marlin so this is why I am asking. I'm trying not to be a turncoat on Marlins but I now have a little rifle that I can carry but still has the Marlin 444 horsepower.

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SteveW
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Post by SteveW » Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:04 pm

I've not had a problem seating heavy bullets in my 444P. I use a 325gr hard cast, gas checked bullet over a heavy dose of H322. I also bought another 340 grain mould but have not had a chance to try it out yet.

One of these years, I hope to use the 444 on a pig hunt... Please pass the bacon! :D I am a big fan of the 444 cartridge. SW
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mainiac
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Post by mainiac » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:19 am

Steve, to make a long story short (no pun intended) I shortened the case by 1/10th of an inch and crimped on the groove and it cycles just fine. I also crimp all of my lever loads with a Lee Loader. Though I can crimp with the regular die, I have found I can get a more consistant crimp using the Lee hand die. This works especially well in my 356 as I did ruin a coupla cases trying to get a good stiff crimp. Also the shortening of the case didn't decrease power capacity enough to make any difference. Just thought I'd pass that little tidbit alone in case anyone else may have that problem.
Up here the 444 has proven to be one of the most effective medicines for taking black bear off their feet over bait. This honey really packs some serious horsepower.

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Post by SteveW » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:38 am

Some time back, I corresponded with a fellow from Maine who used an 1899 Sav in 303 to shoot mooses. He was letting on that 'closer is better'.

I like your idea better - hot 444s will settle Mr Moose's hash more effectively, I believe. For more discussion of Marlin big bores and hunting with same, see also: http://www.marlinowners.com and read the posts to be found on the big bore forum. SW
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Post by mainiac » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:46 pm

The one moose I have shot was with a 300win mag. 165gr Nosler Partition leaving at 3000fps. First shot didn't phase him a bit and I thought I had missed. Second shot was spine shot and he was done. The first bullet traveled through the boiler room legnthwise and really cleaned house but he never showed he was hit. In some research I found that the nervous system in moose is such that they will not react the way deer or other animals do. The next year I saw one shot at 30yds with 250gr from a 338mag. The hit was perfect heart/lung shot but the reaction was the same. He loped about 30 yds and stood behind a clump of maples. Shooter put another one into him but he was dead on his feet. Are they that tough?............No, but you have to hit something like spine or a large bone to really rock them. I do think the bigger bores are much better suited to these animals than the smaller faster bullets.
I have found that with bear, ya gotta hit them as hard as you possibly can. Again this is another case for the 444 and 45-70 crowd. A big bore lever gun is hard to beat in these Maine woods.

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Post by SteveW » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:41 pm

I like your ideas on stopping big & dangerous game and have read similar comments by Peter Capstick as well as WDM 'Karamojo' Bell. Same type of remarks from Elmer Keith. Books by all of those fellows are excellent reading! SW
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Post by mainiac » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:53 pm

Steve,
"*beep* I Was There" is my bible, lol. I didn't really believe old Elmer for a lot of years but after trying his theories I can only say the old guy really was far ahead of his time in ballistics thinking. Nothing beats big bore, no amount of speed will make up for a heavy bullet and no bullet of any bore traveling at any speed will make up for a poorly placed bullet.
I have learned from him that for the most part there is no need for magnum primers. Oh if the weather is real cold there is some advantage to them but if it is that cold I'd rather stay in anyway. I haven't used mag primers in my 41 mag, 300win mag, 7mm mag nor any other case for about 20 years. More constistat velocity with lower pressure is what I have noticed by using standard primers. Easier extraction of cases from my Ruger was the first thing I noticed, then I got a chronograph and that really told the tale. There are those who swear by them but to each his own. If I can figger out how to post a pic in here I have a couple of a recovered partition. Great bullet.

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Post by SteveW » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:03 pm

Two excellent books by Walter Bell are 'Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter' and 'Karamojo Safari'. If your library does not have them, they are VERY worth the time to get through inter-library loan.

I also like Capstick's books, and they are common enough, a lot of libraries have some of them on the shelf.

To post a pic, you will need the URL from a photo hoster like Hunt101 or Photobucket. In your post, click in [img] above and after you have added the URL, click on it again. The photo will appear in you post that way. SW
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Post by Eric N. » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:17 pm

Capstick is cool!! I have a lite weight 444 Marlin.Its a Thompson Center Contender with a 16.25in.bbl. Thus I can use it as a rifle,or a pistol. As a pistol,it will hurt you,as a rifle it will more than hurt you. Look at a 44Mag!! Like an 1894P.Light and fast on target. I know ,I have one. The 444 is bad!! I take my Contender to the range and let guys try it out,all I here is crying,cuts thre sex life in 1/2!!

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Post by mainiac » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:53 pm

Eric,
My dream wheelgun is a Magnum Research stainless champered for the old reliable 45-70. This honey is a handful but what a peice of machinery, lol. I have shot a Contender with a 14inch barrel chambered in 411 JDJ (444case necked down to 41). Talk about a flash of lightening and a clap of thunder, wooooooohooooooo!. Really getting so I like those big boomers in my old age but then again I also want a McMillan 50BMG too.

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Post by BIGDADDY » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:31 pm

:lol: :lol: YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN ABOUT GETTING FOOLISH IN YOUR OLD AGE :lol: :lol: OH YA----HI DAD!! 8) :twisted:

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Post by SteveW » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:40 pm

I used to shoot a lot of IHMSA and still have my Rem XP100 in 7-08. It has quite a kick, but the worst I've owned was a contender barrel in 30-40 Krag improved. It kicked so bad, it unlocked the barrel from the action.

Knocked rams FLAT, though! :wink: The 444 Marlin is about the stoutest cartridge I shoot anymore. I shoot old Steyrs in 8X56R & some folks think those recoil badly, but I have not found them objectionable. SW
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Post by mainiac » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:43 pm

Steve, I know just what you mean. Recoil is a percieved thing. If you think it's gonna kick yer head off then it prolly will. A certain aforeposted son of mine (ahem) thinks my Marlin 336ER kicks quite badly but his 94 Win in that same cal is a pussycat. Go figger. I am more prone now to light rifles that pack a lot of punch.

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