Ballard Action ID

Ballards

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hseaver
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Ballard Action ID

Post by hseaver »

I just bought a Marlin-Ballard action at a gun show. The serial number is 22642. The lettering on the side is pretty faint, but I'm pretty sure it says Marlin Firearms, New Haven, CT, and not JM Marlin.. It does have a convertible firing pin and the front of the action under the barrel is solid except for a small hole that doesn't go through, where a forearm nub would fit. It seems that the falling block is about 1/16" wider than that of another Marlin-Ballard I have (which does say JM Marlin) and which obviously was a rimfire converted to centerfire by putting in a wedge-block across the face of the block. This other gun, the JM Marlin, has a serial number of 16652 and currently sports a round barrel relined to .218 Bee, but I have an Ballard octagon barrel in 25-21 Stevens that I'm going to replace it with.
Can anyone tell me which models these are, whether the actions are cast, and is there a listing somewhere for the serial numbers? I'd show pictures but I don't see anywhere on this form to do so.
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard Action ID

Post by marlinman93 »

Welcome to MFCA forum! There are no records for any Ballards, save about a dozen that somehow slipped into the records over the years intertwined amongst lever guns. The reversible firing pin is a good indicator of a cast action, and the other may have been converted, but more likely the crossplate is a repair for a breechblock that started to erode around the firing pin hole, or was a concern to a gunsmith who converted to a caliber that was too hot for the Ballard action.
If the guns have a hollow area underneath the barrel (chamber end) in the receiver, then they are cast actions. They will also have a three line address on the left side, if they have this void under the barrel (only visable when the breechblock is removed). Some three line address guns have been found with forged receivers, but the vast majority will be cast.
Glad to hear you're changing out the .218 Bee barrel, as that caliber is way over pressures that a Ballard action will hold up to, even a higher grade forged action!
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
hseaver
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Re: Ballard Action ID

Post by hseaver »

Thanks for the info. They both have the hollow, so must be cast. But as far as the .218 Bee goes, I wasn't changing it because I was afraid of it being too much pressure for the action, I've shot many hundreds of rounds, both factory and handloads, in it. I don't push the handloads because I found early on that the cases stretched too much at the base with hot loads, and I got some case separations. Mostly I found the .25-21 barrel for sale and thought it would be neat to use for a Schuetzen style rifle. I've had the .218 Bee for close to 40 years, in fact shot my first two bucks with it on the same opening day, one at 14 yards in the morning and one at 17 yards in the evening. Obviously the .218 Bee is not a recommended deer cartridge, but I got it from a friend who got it from an old guy who used to market hunt for the logging camps in northern Wisconsin, using that little Ballard and a flashlight. He claimed to have killed over 300 deer with it. 8-) In fact my friend is incensed that I'm rebarreling and restocking the gun, says it's a sacrilege. 8-) Maybe it is.
The other action I intended to put a .38-55 barrel on, in fact already bought a Green Mountain .38 octagon barrel for it, but now that I know it's cast I'm thinking that I'll chamber it either for .38-50 Remington-Hepburn or else a shortened .38-55 case, sort of a .38-30 or .38-40. Either way it will be strictly a handloading cartridge and I won't have to worry about someone putting a factory high-pressure cartridge in it, once I'm gone. It should be safe as long as it's kept to blackpower pressure.
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard Action ID

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Well it's your gun, but I wouldn't chamber ANY cast Ballard action in anything but the .22 rimfire, .32 Long or .38 Long that they originally were chambered in. I've got an original cast #2 in it's original .44-40 chambering, and to date I haven't fired it. Same thing for my #2 in .44 Ballard, not firing it either. Marlin realized their error in chambering for this caliber way back in the 1800's, and dropped it. They then chambered the #2 for .44 Ballard, and realised it wasn't much safer, so they dropped that caliber too. The reason you got head separations on the .218 Bee was the breechblock flexing rearwards tremendously under firing. Ballard breechblocks in any type action just don't have enough support to handle those pressures, and will eventually fail. Some folks get by for hundreds and hundreds of firings, and some just don't get lucky enough to make it that far. Good luck!
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
hseaver
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Re: Ballard Action ID

Post by hseaver »

Just googling on ballards and iron actions, I came across this short history: http://cap-n-ball.com/ballard.htm wherein the author states that the #1 and #1 1/2 Ballards had reversible firing pins as well, and these were chambered in .44 Ballard Long and Extra Long, also in .45-70 and, in the #1 1/2, .40-63. He also says that the "No. 1½ was a No. 1 with an extra-heavy wrought iron frame." So I'm wondering if perhaps the action I have with the reversible firing pin could be a #1 or #1 1/2 -- it does seem heavier than the .218 Bee gun, and, as I said before, the block is about 1/16" wider.
I'm also wondering about the actual material -- when you say "cast" are you talking cast iron or cast steel? Or is the "wrought iron" what they were using -- which also could be cast, and is actually quite strong compared to "cast iron". And did Ballard change it's manufacturing technique significantly with the #2 action? Note too that the author of the above piece says about the #5: "This 1876-vintage rifle was a modified No.4 (q.v.), with an extra-heavy iron frame".
So did all the Ballards have iron -- not steel -- frames? And is there any information about actual failure with Ballard actions, such as where does the failure occur, does the frame itself fracture or does it fail to hold the block in place, or....?
I guess I'm more than a little confused at this point, seeing that the earliest Ballards were made for quite stout cartridges -- were the "cast" frames a later short-lived experiment?
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard Action ID

Post by marlinman93 »

The frames in the early #1 and 1 1/2 were round top frames, easily identified from later octagon topped #2's or concave top #3's in the cast actions.
The writer is a bit off on his info on the #5 being a heavier frame. All Ballards use the same size frames from the little #3 in .22 to the monster #5 1/2 Montana in .45-110 caliber. Yes they did chamber the early Ballard in .45-70, and like others it was dropped also in short time.
The cracks are documented, and I've personally seen more than one example myself. The vast majority crack at the sharp junction of the frame where the barrel threads into the frame. Right at the corners on each side where it transitions from vertical to horizontal with a very sharp internal corner. I've seen a few that were brazed, or welded to try and repair them too! Even saw one that some Bubba decided to try to improve by brazing this corner up before it could break. Ugly as sin, and probably even more dangerous once it was annealed from the heat!
Only the Ballards in calibers that were offered both RF and CF had the reversible firing pin system. Cast frame Ballards in calibers like .45-70, .44-40, etc. had round firing pins, even in a cast frame. My Ballard #2 in .44-40 is round pin. Also cast frames with DST breechblocks will always have round pins, as that was the block most commonly used for centerfires. My #2's in .38 Long and .32 Long with DST both have centerfire only firing pins.
The Ballards with cast frames are cast iron, not cast steel. The cast frames were built from beginning to end of production, (1875-1891) but cast frames in any substantial caliber were very short lived! The early .45-70 didn't last much more than a year, the .44-40, .44 Ballard XL, and .32-20 likewise were extremely short lived too! In fact I've never even seen a .32-20 yet, and only a few in .44-40 over 20+ yrs. Saw one in .44 Ballard XL, and bought it, as I figured I'd never see another one!
You might enjoy reading John Dutcher's book, "Ballard The Great American Single Shot Rifle". John did an excellent job of clearing up many Ballard myths and legends, and the information and pictures listed are the finest I've ever seen in a gun related book. John referred to the Ballard #2 cast frame rechambered to .32-40 as a "time bomb" in his book.-Vall
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
hseaver
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Re: Ballard Action ID

Post by hseaver »

Thanks for the info and clarification. And yes, I really have to buy that book, been meaning to for a long time.
piutesteve
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Re: Ballard Action ID

Post by piutesteve »

I have a cast Ballard action with the pocket under the barrel channel, the 3 line address and in 38 long caliber. The top of the receiver had been hit with a hammer several times. Mashed beyond belief. I was able to cold forge the octagon edges back into perfect shape. Also there was a huge hole drilled for a tang sight of some kind. It welded perfectly. This action is cast but cast steel not cast iron. Regards Steve
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