Determined - No 3 Ballard - 22rf

[John Boy]

... Was the No 2 in 22rf special order or a standard factory caliber?
Rifle Details and Noted Differences:
* Model No 2 - 65xx, matching parts
* 26" octagon barrel - no caliber marking - plain front and rear sight (not a blade or buckhorn)
* No extractor or extractor cut
* Forearm - has a triangular ebony piece cut in the Schnabel end
I'm new to Ballards and couldn't find a 22rf listed as a standard caliber. Thanks kindly for your help

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

John;

If this Ballard looks like a Number 2 Sporting Rifle and is a factory original .22 caliber gun, then it most likely is a Number 3 Gallery Rifle. There is also a Number 3 Pistol Grip and a Number 3F, Fine Gallery Rifle, all in .22 caliber.
If you are going to get interested in Ballard rifle, you need to get a copy of John Dutcher's book, Ballard, The Great American Single Shot Rifle. John spent 20 years gathering information to put this book together, and it is by far, one of the best gun books out there when it comes to information and pictures. It is one of my favorites.
I hope this helps.

[marlinman93]

... Was the No 2 in 22rf special order or a standard factory caliber?
Rifle Details and Noted Differences:
* Model No 2 - 65xx, matching parts
* 26" octagon barrel - no caliber marking - plain front and rear sight (not a blade or buckhorn)
* No extractor or extractor cut
* Forearm - has a triangular ebony piece cut in the Schnabel end
I'm new to Ballards and couldn't find a 22rf listed as a standard caliber. Thanks kindly for your help

"No extractor, or extractor cut"???????????? Is this written in some reference book, or what? If so it's wrong for ANY and ALL Marlin Ballards! They all have extractors, and extractor cuts. The #3 can be quickly differentiated from all other Ballards by it's two piece extractor that consists of a round rod with extractor built on the end, that slides straight back when the lever is opened.
Any #2 or #3 with horn inlay in the forearm tip is a early JM Marlin, as the later Marlin Firearms marked Ballards did not have the horn inlay.-Vall

[John Boy]

VAll - Thanks! I found a diagram on the Internet and yep, part #23. I dropped the block today and there it was - unbroken. This rifle needs a liner and the extractor cut needs to be recut. Is the reason I saw no cut ergo no extractor. On the outside the patina is deep plum and uniform and the wood is VG. Plus the price was right. Like I said - I'm new to Ballards, but based on the rifle's weight distribution - might just to have to find a nice one. This one will be used for the Schuetzen weekly matches that our club holds between January and March.
Also, this rifle doesn't have the two piece extractor. It's a flat extractor and the firing pin is for rimfire only. Guess that makes it a #2
Thanks again to both of you gentlemen for your inputs

[Hunt4em]

John Boy,
If all the serial #'s match, then you have a #2 Ballard. The fireing pins are reversible on this model. If there is a screw on the right side of the breach block when it is closed, it has the reversible pin. Just remove the screw, cock the hammer and point the gun up and the pin should slide out if its not rusted in place like the last #3 that I bought. It was rebored to .25 Stevens and probably hadn't been shot in years till I worked it over and put lead down the barrel once more. These Ballards, Like ALL MArlins get in your blood! The #2 Ballards were originally chambered in .32,.38 and .44 Ballard rim or center fire. Hope this helps.
John

[John Boy]

John, yes all the serial numbers match on the rifle,65xx. Yesterday, I field stripped it and there is no reversible firing pin in the breech block. Just a rf pin that is in the rectangular pin cut on the right half of the block. As for the screw on the right side half of the block - No. Just the normal lever - hammer - trigger and bolt screws. The screws are buggered and the firing pin is worn, so I'll put in an order to Ballard Arms, a liner from TJ's, a vernier from Jeff's Outfitters, about 5 coats of boiled linseed/spar varnish and drop the metal in the bluing tank ... and have a nice 22rf shooter.

Thanks to all for your help - am appreciative!

[marlinman93]

Sounds like what you have is a #2 that someone converted to .22 rimfire. They all were reversible firing poins, except for a few that were centerfire only, none rimfire only. With the one piece extractor, it would definitely be a #2, so remove the forearm wood and check the barrel serial number. If it matches, then look closely at both the muzzle and chamber ends of the barrel. I would bet you'll find signs of a relined barrel at one end or the other.-Vall

[John Boy]

Vall, as indicated, the serial numbers match ... under the forearm and on the inside of the butt plate - 65xx. Looked at the muzzle and chamber end of the barrel with a 20x magnifying glass for even a hint of a liner being in the barrel. There is no liner in the barrel. I've completely disassembled the breech block. The only firing pin is the flat rf pin with a rectangular cut on the right half of the breech block for the firing pin hole. Also, there is no screw on the right half of the block indicating a reversible pin. The rifle was originally bored and chambered as a 22 caliber rf.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

John;

You have a Number 3 Gallery Rifle and the Number 3 is the only Ballard chambered for the .22 from the factory. Find a copy of John Dutcher's book and look at page 119. you will see Richard Paterson's Number 3 Gallery Rifle that looks just like a Number 2, but it is a .22 caliber gun.

[John Boy]

Regnier, Thanks for Ducher's reference and determination that it is a #3. I will be reviewing several Ballard reference books next week including Dutcher's. A friend of mine is a gun crank/historian and has reference books on nearly every rifle made since about 1850. Bill also believes he owns 'about' 4 Ballards. I'll also be using his machine shop to put the liner in the barrel

[marlinman93]

My reason for assuming it was a #2 that was converted was your mention of the extractor not being two piece. You did say it was NOT a two piece extractor, and if that's true, then it can't be a #3.
In the picture below you'll see my #3F on the right, and #2 on the left. The #3 extractor is the two piece on the right, that uses a arm off the lever pivot screw along with a plunger that slides back alonside the barrel.-Vall

[John Boy]

Vall - using your pictures as a quide, I looked at the chamber more closely. Notice the remains of the extractor plug among the rust. I totally missed this!


So, it's a No 3 with the plug only left in the barrel and a one piece replacement extractor that had been 'modified by Fingers Magee' and never will remove a spent case


I called Ballard Arms today and ordered replacements for the buggered screws. They told me only the #2 had the one piece extractor so I ordered a 2 piece. Now the trick is going to be to remove the broken plug. Or leave the plug, get a one piece extractor and cut the slot through the plug area. Probably will have to cut some addtional thread on the barrel to reface the chamber end too when I put the liner in... Project Rifle!

Am glad that I only paid $250 for it and if I had knowledge of Ballards ... would have worked the price down even more or walked away. Oh well, it's my headache now or sell it off for parts. Except for the bore and what you see at the chamber, everything else is in good shape - including the wood.

Thanks Kindly to All - it's been a learning experience for me.

[marlinman93]

That's not a "extractor plug", that's the plunger half of the two piece extractor that is frozen and rusted into the barrel! You might soak that action in a tank of solvent or rust penetrant and get it free. That would allow it to be pulled out and then you'd have the #3 extractor working again. If it wont come out, then you can carefully drill the center of the round portion with sequentially larger drill bits until it will allow the old extractor to be removed and then a new one from Ballard can be installed. I took one out with a burr on a Dremel tool once, when it was frozen in like your's. I drilled it most the way, then used the burr to remove the last of it.
If you give up, I'll give you your money back for it!-Vall

PS-That's an early flat top #3 JM Marlin Ballard. As you can see with my #3F Fine Gallery, they went to a concave top later to accomodate the smaller diameter barrels and low sights. Early flat top Ballards have larger diameter barrels, and usually longer too. The later barrels are mostly 24" small diameter.VM

[John Boy]

Vall - your procedure is exactly the process that will used. The rifle is vertically in the vice now. I'm into day 2 with:
* Applying a batch of PB rust remover and Kroil - warm the area with a torch on low flame - few taps with the brass mallet for the shock waves- more rust remover and Kroil.
* Am also doing the same to the barrel at the front of the receiver
Will be a daily process until I can see that the barrel is taking the solution down into the barrel threads
So, when the new extractor arrives and time to more easily remove the barrel - the plunger will removed with a screw remover
I do Thank You for the details about it being an early JM Marlin Ballard. The barrel is 26" on this one. Next week I'll have several Ballard Rifle books for my reading and educational pleasure.

Thanks for your purchase offer, but I'm a stuborn cuss and this rifle is going to shoot again. If I sold it to you, then I'd have a vernier from Jeff's Outfitter's - TJ Liner and the Ballard Arms parts in a box under the reloading bench - and have to look for another 22 Project Rifle

PS: If you are interested in an exact remake of the old Ideal 375166 mold - I have the group buy information here on the For Sale forum... The mold that hasn't seen the light of day for over 40 years ... http://www.marlin-collectors.com/forum/ ... =12&t=7402

[marlinman93]

I figured I couldn't talk you out of the #3, as everyone falls in love with a Ballard once they own one, regardless of condition! The #3 is one of my favorites, and I've got a soft spot for them. I think I've got 4 of the #3 now, but always interested in another project Ballard!
Oops! Make that 5!