There is a new listing for this gun on Auction Arms #8276375. I don't know anything about Ballards but I noticed that some of you are collectors and very knowledgable. If you want to take a look and give some feedback I would like to start learning. Maybe I'll be somewhere some day and need to know a good one when I see it!
Thanks,
Sherrill the Rookie
Ballard #3 Gallery Rifle
Moderators: Regnier (gunrunner), JohnK, Sure-Shot
Sherrill,
I would suggest that you buy John Dutchers book "Ballard The Great American Single Shot Rifle". It has a ton of info and pictures! I think your on the right track as far as learning about guns. Keep an eye on the auction sites and ask questions, lots of questions. There has been several frankenstein Marlins, like the 1891 you asked about, that have brought ridiculous prices. I think most were bought may unknowing people from un-reputable dealers! When in doubt ask and if you don't like the answer, pass on the deal.
As for the Ballard on AA, it looks to be a typical #3 gallery. I've seen these sell in the $500-800 range depending on the condition. Marlinman93 is the Ballard expert and if he's not off elk hunting, he will have a better answer.
John
I would suggest that you buy John Dutchers book "Ballard The Great American Single Shot Rifle". It has a ton of info and pictures! I think your on the right track as far as learning about guns. Keep an eye on the auction sites and ask questions, lots of questions. There has been several frankenstein Marlins, like the 1891 you asked about, that have brought ridiculous prices. I think most were bought may unknowing people from un-reputable dealers! When in doubt ask and if you don't like the answer, pass on the deal.
As for the Ballard on AA, it looks to be a typical #3 gallery. I've seen these sell in the $500-800 range depending on the condition. Marlinman93 is the Ballard expert and if he's not off elk hunting, he will have a better answer.
John
-
Regnier (gunrunner)
- Distinguished Expert
- Posts: 4670
- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
- Location: The Sunflower State
Sherrill;
Just like the lever action rifes, and the need of Bill Brophy's book Marlin Firearms, A History of the Guns and the Company that made them, if you have an interest in Ballards, you will need to get a copy of John Dutcher's book, Ballard, The Great American Single Shot Rifle.
There is no finer book available, and John spent 20 years putting this book together. It covers the subject completely and leaves no questions. It will be a fine addition to your gun book library.
Just like the lever action rifes, and the need of Bill Brophy's book Marlin Firearms, A History of the Guns and the Company that made them, if you have an interest in Ballards, you will need to get a copy of John Dutcher's book, Ballard, The Great American Single Shot Rifle.
There is no finer book available, and John spent 20 years putting this book together. It covers the subject completely and leaves no questions. It will be a fine addition to your gun book library.
Thanks to you both. I will get that book also. I have a lot of reading to do.
I am really enjoying this forum....I'm having trouble getting other things done!
I started out hooked on the model 39A and as I learned more about it's history it led me to the earlier models (1891,1893,etc.). Next I discovered that I like some of the older 336 models and now maybe the Ballards. I will probably have to steer clear of the really nice high dollar Ballards though!
I like the older guns for sure, and for now would like to begin a small collection of some of the models that interest me. I guess I can always upgrade one if I find a better one down the road.
Right now I have a 1951 model 39A with the brass insert in the cap, a 1951 336sc and a 1958 model 39-A mountie. The first two are in great condition but the mountie is not as good and I would like to upgrade it. Now I need an old pre 1900 one.
I have started out my search with pre micro groove guns although the mountie is not . However, now I think I am turning into a Marlin addict. The more history I learn the more models I will need for my collection!
I am really enjoying this forum....I'm having trouble getting other things done!
I started out hooked on the model 39A and as I learned more about it's history it led me to the earlier models (1891,1893,etc.). Next I discovered that I like some of the older 336 models and now maybe the Ballards. I will probably have to steer clear of the really nice high dollar Ballards though!
I like the older guns for sure, and for now would like to begin a small collection of some of the models that interest me. I guess I can always upgrade one if I find a better one down the road.
Right now I have a 1951 model 39A with the brass insert in the cap, a 1951 336sc and a 1958 model 39-A mountie. The first two are in great condition but the mountie is not as good and I would like to upgrade it. Now I need an old pre 1900 one.
I have started out my search with pre micro groove guns although the mountie is not . However, now I think I am turning into a Marlin addict. The more history I learn the more models I will need for my collection!
-
marlinman93
- Distinguished Expert
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon
Looks like a decent enough #3 Ballard, but I'd be curious why the seller never mentioned the bore condition? Probably because most #3 Ballards have poor bores!
If you're serious about placing a bid, I'd email the seller and ask for a description of the bore. If it sounds like anything less than great, I wouldn't go more than about $600 tops on it.
If the bore is great, it could be another $100-$150 more. Sights aren't a huge issue, as many Ballards had sights changed, but these sights are way too new for that gun. There's also signs that it had a decent Ballard tang sight, as the case colors show where it was removed. Expect to pay as much for a Ballard midrange gallery tang sight, and Ballard globe, as the whole gun might cost. Std. sights for a #3 will be much less.
Here's picture of a #3 I bought recently. It has a super bore, and correct midrange vernier, with Win. globe front (common change on Ballards). It was also special ordered with #6 style wood, and no rear sight dovetail. This was a $1,000 #3, and I felt well worth the price for a special order, with some great sights and great bore!
Here's a #3 I got a Gunbroker earlier this year for $800. All std., and a gorgeous like new bore, plus lots of finish left. A Marbles tang sight, and Beeches combination globe front sight too.
If you're serious about placing a bid, I'd email the seller and ask for a description of the bore. If it sounds like anything less than great, I wouldn't go more than about $600 tops on it.
If the bore is great, it could be another $100-$150 more. Sights aren't a huge issue, as many Ballards had sights changed, but these sights are way too new for that gun. There's also signs that it had a decent Ballard tang sight, as the case colors show where it was removed. Expect to pay as much for a Ballard midrange gallery tang sight, and Ballard globe, as the whole gun might cost. Std. sights for a #3 will be much less.
Here's picture of a #3 I bought recently. It has a super bore, and correct midrange vernier, with Win. globe front (common change on Ballards). It was also special ordered with #6 style wood, and no rear sight dovetail. This was a $1,000 #3, and I felt well worth the price for a special order, with some great sights and great bore!
Here's a #3 I got a Gunbroker earlier this year for $800. All std., and a gorgeous like new bore, plus lots of finish left. A Marbles tang sight, and Beeches combination globe front sight too.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Marlinman93,
Thanks for your advice. I had company and was gone most of day yesterday so was not able to post.
I contacted the seller and he says the bore is "excellent with sharp rifling". He also dates the rifle between 1876 and 1891. The serial number on the gun is 16561; do you know what mfg. date that might be?
I see where you say the sight has been removed. I would like it more if it still had it. It has J.M.Marlin Feb 9, 1875 and Ballards patent Nov 5, 186? stamped on it. I cannot make out the last digit of the year...doesn't even appear to be there.
Your guns are beautiful!! The AA Ballard has a reserve on it so no telling what he wants for it. If I had to go 6-800 dollars on it would it be worth it? If I could get a much nicer gun such as yours for around $1000 then I would want to wait and spend more on something better. However, if there is something about this gun that would make it worth having then I might bid on it.
What do you think??
Thanks for your advice. I had company and was gone most of day yesterday so was not able to post.
I contacted the seller and he says the bore is "excellent with sharp rifling". He also dates the rifle between 1876 and 1891. The serial number on the gun is 16561; do you know what mfg. date that might be?
I see where you say the sight has been removed. I would like it more if it still had it. It has J.M.Marlin Feb 9, 1875 and Ballards patent Nov 5, 186? stamped on it. I cannot make out the last digit of the year...doesn't even appear to be there.
Your guns are beautiful!! The AA Ballard has a reserve on it so no telling what he wants for it. If I had to go 6-800 dollars on it would it be worth it? If I could get a much nicer gun such as yours for around $1000 then I would want to wait and spend more on something better. However, if there is something about this gun that would make it worth having then I might bid on it.
What do you think??
Sherrill,
You might ask the seller his reserve and he may just tell you! And I would ask if he will stand behind his description of the bore with at least a 3 day return. It's a lot easier to loose the shipping than a couple hundred $ on a bad bore. Word your questions carefully as not to offend him and you should do just fine. You could ask for a phone # and then write down the questions you have before you call. If your like me, you'll forget something until you hear the click when the phone hangs up! Good luck!
Val,
There is some nice case coloring still on that second #3!
If only you would reveal the location of that cave where you keep digging up these Ballards!
John
You might ask the seller his reserve and he may just tell you! And I would ask if he will stand behind his description of the bore with at least a 3 day return. It's a lot easier to loose the shipping than a couple hundred $ on a bad bore. Word your questions carefully as not to offend him and you should do just fine. You could ask for a phone # and then write down the questions you have before you call. If your like me, you'll forget something until you hear the click when the phone hangs up! Good luck!
Val,
There is some nice case coloring still on that second #3!
If only you would reveal the location of that cave where you keep digging up these Ballards!John
-
marlinman93
- Distinguished Expert
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon
Sherrill,
The JM Marlin rollstamp will date the AA #3 to not much later than around 1881. All MArlin Ballrds marked either JM Marlin or MArlin Firearms Co. were made between 1875 and 1891. Early production of JM Marlin Ballards was not more than about 25,000 guns total.
I would follow John's advice on the one at AA, and get the seller to agree to a return if the bore is not truly excellent, and not relined. If he agrees, then I don't see a problem if you can get it in the $600-$700ish range. Remember you'll be adding shipping and insurance, but hopefully he wont ask for an FFL transfer on an antique gun!
I had to get an FFLtransfer on the #3 with lots of finish, as seller was in New York, and wouldn't sell anything without an FFL! Fortunately I have a friend who didn't charge me.
The JM Marlin rollstamp will date the AA #3 to not much later than around 1881. All MArlin Ballrds marked either JM Marlin or MArlin Firearms Co. were made between 1875 and 1891. Early production of JM Marlin Ballards was not more than about 25,000 guns total.
I would follow John's advice on the one at AA, and get the seller to agree to a return if the bore is not truly excellent, and not relined. If he agrees, then I don't see a problem if you can get it in the $600-$700ish range. Remember you'll be adding shipping and insurance, but hopefully he wont ask for an FFL transfer on an antique gun!
I had to get an FFLtransfer on the #3 with lots of finish, as seller was in New York, and wouldn't sell anything without an FFL! Fortunately I have a friend who didn't charge me.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
With a JM Marlin three line address?Marlinman93,
Thanks for getting back to me. There is a serial number list in the back of the blue book that puts 16561 to be about 1887 mfg date. Does this sound right to you? I kind of like this one. If you get a chance to look at it would you tell me if you think it would be a good Ballard for me or if I should wait for something better? I don't want to be in too big of a hurry but I don't want to pass on a good opportunity either. Compared to yours this one would be pretty plain. I haven't looked at Ballards enough to know how this one would rate. The Ballard doesn't go off auction until 10/15.
Since you got back to me on the 1891 lever action question I posted there again. I have read the article in Guns & Ammo now and it is pretty good. For me it offers a simplified timeline of when the different models came into play.
Thanks,
Sherrill
Hunt4em,
I will do that. He doesn't say all his terms and conditions on the listing like some do but he has a link to his website. I will contact him and see what he says. Maybe he will tell me the reserve too.
Thanks for getting back to me. There is a serial number list in the back of the blue book that puts 16561 to be about 1887 mfg date. Does this sound right to you? I kind of like this one. If you get a chance to look at it would you tell me if you think it would be a good Ballard for me or if I should wait for something better? I don't want to be in too big of a hurry but I don't want to pass on a good opportunity either. Compared to yours this one would be pretty plain. I haven't looked at Ballards enough to know how this one would rate. The Ballard doesn't go off auction until 10/15.
Since you got back to me on the 1891 lever action question I posted there again. I have read the article in Guns & Ammo now and it is pretty good. For me it offers a simplified timeline of when the different models came into play.
Thanks,
Sherrill
Hunt4em,
I will do that. He doesn't say all his terms and conditions on the listing like some do but he has a link to his website. I will contact him and see what he says. Maybe he will tell me the reserve too.
-
marlinman93
- Distinguished Expert
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon
I would totally disagree with the gun being as late as 1887 when it hs a JM Marlin rollstamp. Way too late for that.
Marlin Firearms Co. started the serial numbers again for some reason, once they changed from JM Marlin, so there are numerous examples of MFCo. and JM Marlin Ballards with the same number.
Now if the Bluebook is talking about MFCo. Ballards, then I'd agree with the 1887 guesstimate as close.
As for the #3 on AA, it wouldn't be a bad gun to own (in my opinion) as the sights are the only area that is messed with really. He states it might have had an old refinish, but frm what I see it may only be that the stocks are lightly sanded.
It also looks like it might not go really high, so if it doesn't it would be a reasonable Ballard to start out with.
I still think you REALLY need to get John Dutcher's book and spend a bunch of time enjoying and absorbing what info is there! I never have it far away, and have probably read it entirely several times, witha lot of reference reading inbetween! It's just that good of a book!
Hope his helps.-Vall
Marlin Firearms Co. started the serial numbers again for some reason, once they changed from JM Marlin, so there are numerous examples of MFCo. and JM Marlin Ballards with the same number.
Now if the Bluebook is talking about MFCo. Ballards, then I'd agree with the 1887 guesstimate as close.
As for the #3 on AA, it wouldn't be a bad gun to own (in my opinion) as the sights are the only area that is messed with really. He states it might have had an old refinish, but frm what I see it may only be that the stocks are lightly sanded.
It also looks like it might not go really high, so if it doesn't it would be a reasonable Ballard to start out with.
I still think you REALLY need to get John Dutcher's book and spend a bunch of time enjoying and absorbing what info is there! I never have it far away, and have probably read it entirely several times, witha lot of reference reading inbetween! It's just that good of a book!
Hope his helps.-Vall
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
The serial number list in the blue book just says it is for older rifles and starts with 1883 #4001. I bet it isn't for Ballards. My book is on the way along with the Marlin Firearms book. I am anxious for them to arrive! I was wondering whether to seriously pursue this Ballard as a "starter gun" so thank you for your opinion.
Sherrill
Sherrill
-
marlinman93
- Distinguished Expert
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon