Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

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Jwhare21
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Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Jwhare21 »

I was gifted a family rifle, finally. No caliber stamp only the make, model like the others who have posted here.
Got a fellow gun smith who wants to see it.
The rifle came out of Buffalo Gap VA, near Monterey.
I couldn't attach my pics?
John in Alabama.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

John;

To post pictures, read the very first post under the sectiontitled "NO LONGER GUEST QUESTIONS".
Otherwise, we would need far more information about your Ballard to be of any help. A good description should include the barrel shape, length, type of stock ( i.e. straight grip or pistol grip ) style of butt plate, any sights and the marking on the side of the receiver.
That would be a good start......
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by marlinman93 »

Add the serial number to what Regnier posted, and we can narrow down a time frame also. If you don't want to post the whole number then replace the last two digits with x's. The rollstamp on the left side, and the serial number will both add to narrowing things down. Because Marlin restarted their serial numbers when they incorporated in 1881 there are actually duplicate serial numbers on Ballard rifles marked "JM Marlin" and those post1881 marked "Marlin Firearms Co.". So we need all the info to determine pre or post 1881.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Jwhare21
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Jwhare21 »

Thanks Gunrunner and Admin
Waiting for the final steps from photobucket to upload the photos.
Meantime:
S/N: 2723
Hexagon barrel 28.5 inches tip to flat block or 30.0 in tip to chamber
The barrel has (2) steel loops for a cleaning rod maybe(?) My brother-in-law thought it was a muzzle loader.
Single shot drop block with double trigger
Barrel width is 7/8in
Bore (hole) width 3/8in
Stock is beautiful Maple maybe.
Butt plate is steel with a single flat head screw. has a nice curve, at the top it rolls back towards the hammer about 2.5in.
The lever is curved, bends back up behind the triggers with a single loop at the end.
The Stamp reads:
J.W. MARLIN. NEW HAVEN. CONN. USA
BALLARD'S PATENT NOV 5 1861

Really eager to know more about it!
Thanks John
Jwhare21
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Jwhare21 »

...and thank you marlinman93!
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by marlinman93 »

You have what I believe is a Ballard #5 Pacific. But since you didn't mention if it has double set triggers, I'm not positive. Double set triggers would confirm it's a #5 Pacific, but if it's a single trigger it would be a very rare #4 1/4 model.
The "thimbles" under the barrel were for the wiping rod, which both the #5 #4 1/4, and #5 1/2 Montana all had. I'm sure yours isn't a #5 1/2 Montana as they were later, and much heavier octagon barrels. Your gun of course is an octagon also, not a "hexagon" as you mentioned.
The single screw in the buttplate is odd, and I wonder if you missed the 2nd screw that goes down through the top of the buttplate? Should be one there also for a total of two screws.
Your JM Marlin stamp, and the early serial number would indicate it's likely made a year or two into Marlin's production; around 1876-1877 era. Marlin built Ballard rifles from 1875 to around 1890. Early JM Marlin marked Ballard rifles almost never have the caliber stamped on the barrel, while later post 1881 almost always have the caliber marked.
They built the Pacific in many calibers, so you'll need to determine for sure what yours is before shooting it; unless you're already certain.
This is one of my Pacific Ballard rifles, so you can compare features to your rifle:

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Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Jwhare21
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Jwhare21 »

Oh she's a beauty!
Correct, JM Marlin, thanks.
Yes, double triggers on mine.
2nd screw on the butt plate yes.
Octagon, yes.
We believe it is a 38-55.
A family friend came over last night, his daddy use to shoot it and it belonged to his great, great uncle! He came back this morning and gifted me with the Marlin .38 Bullet mold, and cartridge loading hand set.
I believe another family member has a box of bullets they salvaged from the old homestead.
I'd like to get the wiping rod and vernier site to go with the rifle. What an awesome project and piece of history.
We will verify before attempting to fire this rifle!
Thanks so much for the information.
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by marlinman93 »

Marlin Ballard Pacific wiping rods are impossible to find, but you can use a wiping rod for a muzzleloader rifle, sort of. The issue is if the wiping rod fits under the barrel in the thimbles, it will be too short to go completely through the bore. It will fill the thimbles, and look decent, but will just be short. It also needs to be around 5/16" diameter to fit those thimbles correctly.
The original Pacific wiping rod was a two piece, and the short 2nd piece was shipped with the guns, and are never seen. I owned Ballard rifles for decades, always wondering how the wiping rods could even be used? Then I ran across an advertisement for the old Pacific and it showed the gun and the wiping rod extension.
I immediately went to work on a piece of hickory dowel and some brass, and made a new wiping rod for my Pacific, with the proper extension I scaled from the advertisement.
This is what they should look like. I stained the rod to age the appearance:

Image

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Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Jwhare21
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Jwhare21 »

Got an update! Met up with a family member this weekend who had 5 old cartridges and...40-60!
That's what my mother-in-law had said she remembered from being a youngster. We have the original owner, a Civil War soldier and uncle to the family. Pretty exciting.
Now to find some ammo!
Thoughts?
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by marlinman93 »

That's one of the rarest cartridges ever chambered in a Ballard, as it's a real oddball, and doesn't share case dimensions with any other Marlin Ballard case. The dimensions are:
length-2.18"
head-.458"
mouth-.458"
rim-.544"
rim thickness-.060"

The cartridge is actually called the .40-60 Everlasting. You can make these cases from .30-40 Krag brass, that will need to be blown out to open up case mouths, or expanded, and fire formed. Then cut down to the 2.18" length. You wont find anyone making this case, unless you go to one of the custom brass makers and pay $3.50-$4.00 per case.

I would still go for a chamber casting to ensure it is the .40-60 Everlasting before investing too much time and money into loading for this oddball cartridge. It may well be the much more common .40-63 Ballard Everlasting, which is quite similar, and still needs to be formed from donor brass.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Jwhare21
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by Jwhare21 »

I do appreciate all the factual information and have a bit of a journey before me if I am ever to send a round down range from this rifle.
Love a challenge, and this rifle.
I look forward to our next correspondence.
A blessed day to you sir.
John
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marlinman93
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Re: Ballard's Nov 5 1861 caliber search

Post by marlinman93 »

I Made a mistype and no way to correct or edit it. I said the .40-63 was "quite smaller" when I meant the .40-60 is the smaller case. The .40-63 is a larger case I form from .405 Win. brass.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
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