Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Ballards

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Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:34 am

Gerald;

Envy......? Hardly. I would hardly envy that with what I have.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Antiquer
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Re: Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Post by Antiquer » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:32 am

This conversation is going nowhere in a hurry. Bottom line is this.
Lets keep it simple . I think this is a rare rifle ( perhaps one of a kind??)
You say no. Maybe you are correct?? You are the distiguished expert.
Show me another dual ignition deluxe Ballard by the same maker.

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marlinman93
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Re: Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Post by marlinman93 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:38 am

Antiquer,
I don't think there's been any mention or debate as to whether a Ballard like your's is rare? In fact it's probably the only one with that presentation inlay, and one of a handful of pre Marlin Ballards that were engraved. How rare a item is does not always mean it's monetary value is large. It does mean it's value compared to equal pre Marlin Ballards is greater.
This whole topic began as a question of your Ballard's value, and has morphed into a debate on that topic, based on your continued emphasis that you believe a pre Marlin Ballard is as valueable as a Marlin Ballard simply because it's engraved, has a presentation plaque, and not many are found. It just doesn't add up when it's still a pre Marlin Ballard. It's value is much greater than other pre Marlin Ballards, but it will never catch up to Marlin Ballard values as there's just not the interest in them that Marlin Ballards carry. The amount of general interest in a antique firearm sets a certain level, and rareity or other features add to that level. A base Marlin Ballard is much higher value vs. a base pre Marlin Ballard, thus an embellished Marlin Ballard is much more valueable than an embellished pre Marlin Ballard.
I have several Marlins that I know for a fact are one of a kind. I don't kid myself that they are somehow multiplied in value too many times because of being the only one of their sort in existence. I do feel they are worth more than other exact equals that don't have the personalized features or embellishments that my "one of a kinds" have, just not many times over the others values.
You're taking the info that's been offered here as criticism, or condemnation of your fine Ballard. You say you're an experienced collector, and yet you refuse to accept that rareity of a firearm is not the number one dictating factor in determining value. I've seen a lot of highly embellished firearms that were very rare go for reasonable prices because the particular firearm was just not a hghly desireable model. It's just a fact, and not a condemnation of your gun, and certainly no reason for you to take it so personally.
Submitting your gun to Man At Arms is great, and them adding it to the magazine is nice also, but it simply means they appreciate it for what it is. The coverage will add to it's value, if it ever comes up for sale. But to say it wasn't for sale is bending the truth. If it wasn't for sale the whole topic wouldn't have started here in the beginning of this thread.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!

Antiquer
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Re: Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Post by Antiquer » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:18 am

Once again I think if you look at my comments April 20, 2013 at 6:48 I clearly state that I said the gun was offered for sale briefly last year . I had absolutely no idea as to its value and said so. I mentioned a random sum of $25,000 which was not based on anything .It was right out of the blue . I said previously that this price was a "not seriously interested in selling price." I also said and continue to maintain that the value of any "one-of-a-kind item" is very subjective and could be any amount , who knows ???? only the buyer and the seller will be able to determine that . after its sold . You may not agree with this way of thinking and thats fine ..... we will have to agreed to respectfully disagree.

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marlinman93
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Re: Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Post by marlinman93 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:48 pm

Well I don't quite agree, as there's always the PT Barnum quote, "There's a sucker born every minute." Which means that the price of something being sold doesn't always set the value. I've seen far too many people unwittingly buy a gun and later sell it for far less than they paid.
The price of a certain gun is whatever you sell it for, but the value of that gun is what most guns in similar configuration sell for, or what that gun sells for if it came back up in a year or so. Then I'd say the value of the gun is the average of what it sold for the last couple times.
Guess we'll agree to disagree.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!

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Re: Engraved Model1867 Ballard

Post by Antiquer » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:29 am

In my 40 years of collecting like most other collectors I too have paid too much for an item that I really wanted. I would advise any collector new or old to do their research, before they purchase. No one wants to be taken. On occasion particularly at a fine firearms auction someone will knowingly pay more than it's known value because two or three other people want it also, for example. Generally however fair market value is determined by an informed willing buyer and an informed willing seller. I think we mat both agree on that???

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