1881 throats

[Brent]

I am interested in understanding how pre-smokeless lever guns dealt with fouling. As repeaters, wiping or blow tubing between shots, as is often done with single shots, is just not practical. So, how did these guns manage to function and maintain any semblance of accuracy using strictly blackpowder loads?

My guess is that the answer to that question is at least partially, if not entirely, accomplished by the throat. Unfortunately, I do not have an 1881, which would be the ideal beast to investigate. In particular, I would like to know if, at the end of the cartridge case, do the chamber walls rise quickly to groove diameter along a steep slope, or does it do so much more slowly with basically just a long funnel from the chamber diameter at the case mouth to top of the lands in one long, shallow, funnel-like angle.

I would appreciate hearing from those of you with original chambers. I'm particularly interested in the large rifle calibers, but I'd also be interested in smaller cartridges and their associated models so long as they were from the pre-smokeless era.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.

Brent
PS. If anyone has done a scholarly dissection and discussion of chambers in these guns, I would love to know of it.

[marlinman93]

I've owned a dozen 1881's over the years, and still have four. They all have a gradual taper to the lead into the rifling. But it does little to help with shooting BP in large quantities without cleaning them.
My first 1881 was a very nice .45-70 caliber, and I thought it should be fired with BP, and not smokeless powder. So I worked up some compressed loads that used a 405 gr. bullet, but never did get 70 grs. of powder into my cases, so 65 grs. was all I got.
The gun fired the first 4 shots into a nice small group, and I was very happy. The 4th shot was still in the group, but the lever was a bit sluggish to open. 5th shot a little more sluggish, and 6th shot I barely got the lever open. I couldn't get the lever closed after the last shot, and it went back in the hard case open.
When I got home I sprayed some crud cutter into the action and it freed up and worked. I then disassembled it and cleaned out the crud that had dropped into the action during cycling at the range. I pulled bullets and reloaded my cases with a mild smokeless load, and never fired BP in another 1881 ever again.
If I shot BP in an 1881 I'd make sure I raised the muzzle up before cycling the next round in, just to ensure nothing fell into the action and gummed up the works. I'd also take along a spray can of a good lubricant to keep the internals lubed and avoid the issue I had.

[Brent]

Thanks for this! It confirms my hypothesis at least.

I'm loading 70 grns of Swiss 1.5 with a grease cookie and wads and a 410 grn paper patched bullet. The paper patch part is pushing my luck but it makes me happy.

Anyway, I don't want or need "vast quantities" of ammo to cycle. I would like 4 shots for hunting purposes. If I could get 5, I would consider shooting a match with it (NRA LA Silhouette). But that's all. I have never had issues with a sticky lever when opening the action nor with fouling falling into the action from a spent shell. Not sure why.