Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

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DesertDave
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Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by DesertDave »

Hi there. I have had an early 1893 SN 103xxx indicates manufacture in 1894, it has the screw holding the ejector, so it is the first year of production from what I have found out. She is a .38 55 which was first acquired by my family around 1960. I am now in possession and want to bring the old girl back to life, she is in poor shape. I have been slowly disassembling her and have now gotten the Bolt out thanks to a lot of WD40 and gentle persuasion. The amount of caked on hardened crud in the action is shameful!

The first big issue is the firing pin is stuck in the extended position protruding from the bolt face. I have been soaking in WD40 and gently tapping with a plastic mallet to no avail. Any bright ideas on this? There is no rust or anything like that on the bolt, once I cleaned it up it looks to be in pretty good shape save for the firing pin being stuck.

My second concern is the barrel. Back when I was a lot younger and actually shot the gun, you couldn't a barn from the inside with the gun. The bullets tumbled to the degree that they whirred as they headed down range! I'm sure it hasn't gotten better since then. I'm considering relining the barrel, seems like that works well from what I have read. But is the barrel safe to shoot with smokeless power loads? It doesn't appear to be marked as some later models were to indicate safe for smokeless powder use. Would relining make it safer or degrade barrel strength?

Is it possible to get a new barrel? Any suppliers for such?

Any other thoughts on bringing this fine old rifle back to life?
OldManLarsen
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by OldManLarsen »

Regarding the firing pin I'd use a heat gun carefully which will expand the surrounding metal and use a better penetrating oil such as PB Blaster or Kroil.
One oufit that sells barrel liners and I believe also bores out the barrel and installs the new liner is:
Track of the Wolf, see:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/
Good luck
Jim
DesertDave
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by DesertDave »

thank you I'll give that a try!
Brent
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by Brent »

as I recall, there is a cross pin that holds the firing pin from falling out. If it has not been removed and some gunk accumulated ahead of it, I suppose it may not move. So, if you have not pulled that pin. I realize that odds are good that you already did this, but it's all I can suggest besides more soaking and heating/boiling.
DesertDave
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by DesertDave »

Boiling? In water? Had not thought of that. The firing pin is still stuck,so all suggestions are welcome.
Brent
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by Brent »

Yeah, I was thinking of boiling water. However, water will get into the firing pin hole and so if you can't get the pin out after boiling you are going to has to soak in something that is a good water displacer like WD40 or it will only make it worse. I'm not sure I like my boiling idea. Just thinking out loud (living dangerously).
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marlinman93
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by marlinman93 »

Just punch out both cross pins to allow the to halves of the firing pin to be removed. Then tap the firing pin tip with a small punch to move it from the stuck position and clean it. I'd also clean the firing pin bore in the breech bolt, as it's likely full of crud too.
There's not much you can do by boiling it in water that will help. It may temporarily free the firing pin, but the crud is still in there, and once it solidifies again the firing pin will stick again. It's such an easy task to remove the breech bolt, and the retaining pins, that I'd do it right and disassemble the bolt. Should probably remove the extractor pin also and clean it and it's bore too. You can use small caliber bore brushes to clean inside the firing pin bore with solvent.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Brent
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by Brent »

Yes, you definitely have to remove the pins and clean the channel. I did not mean to imply otherwise.
DesertDave
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by DesertDave »

Okay! Making some progress. Used a heat gun and got the retaining pins out. Heat and WD-40 did the trick on the pins and then the plug (?) at the back of the firing pin came out. There is a leaf spring at the back of the firing pin hole and was wondering about that. How should it come out? I don't like forcing things that may have some special method of getting them removed, so, asking the experts. So you you have been marvelous help and I REALLY appreciate the advice.
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Gentlemen;

If you wish to boil a part in something, use auto parts cleaner that is made for boiling. That will soften the crud and make it easier to remove all in one motion. I used a carburetor cleaner once and it worked quite well.
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marlinman93
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by marlinman93 »

DesertDave wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:04 pm Okay! Making some progress. Used a heat gun and got the retaining pins out. Heat and WD-40 did the trick on the pins and then the plug (?) at the back of the firing pin came out. There is a leaf spring at the back of the firing pin hole and was wondering about that. How should it come out? I don't like forcing things that may have some special method of getting them removed, so, asking the experts. So you you have been marvelous help and I REALLY appreciate the advice.
The spring for the back half of the firing pin is simply sitting in a cut inside. It has a 90 degree bend on it to retain it, and using a pick or very tiny screwdriver it can easily be dislodged. If it's stuck from dried gunk, then shoot some penetrant on it and try it a little later. They usually fall out when the rear half is removed. Might need a better penetrant than WD40. I use Kroil for most stuck bolts, or pins. Expensive, but it really works great!
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
DesertDave
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by DesertDave »

Project is progressing. The firing pin spring was broken at the retaining tab. There was so much crud died up in there the firing pin was also fairly corroded, not really rust but black iron oxide and carbon. I brushed out the inside of the bolt with cleaner but the firing pin was still sticky. I smoothed off the roughness on the firing pin with 600 grit emery paper and then crocus cloth. It now moves smoothly in the bolt. I ordered a new spring from Numrich.

I have watched several tests on YourTube about various penetrants and the one thing that stood out was heat was the best option. Heat and something like WD or Liquid Wrench (which out did all others) gave the best results. But seems like heat from the heat gun finally got things to move. The firing pin was so stuck in there that it took several days of gentle persuasion to get it out. I think that the heating and cooling helped break the pin free enough and then tapping it out a bit and back in, back and forth while heating and cooling finally got it out. Each time It moved about 1/32" more out. So, once again thank you all for the tips!

The next issue is removing the fore stock. It seems like once the trigger plate is removed and band at the front is slid off the fore stock should just rotate down and off. But, it has been a long time since it has been off, maybe never since manufactured 125 years ago. So it is stuck, big surprise! I especially do not want damage any of the wood, it is in pretty good shape, considering. What suggestions to get the fore stock off? Am I correct in my assumption that it should rotate down from the front and then off? What would be good to use to loosen any crud gluing it to the barrel or magazine?
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marlinman93
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by marlinman93 »

The forearm wood will not come off by pulling down on it!!! It will break!
The magazine tube needs to be released from the barrel, and the forearm wood and mag tube come off together, then the wood slid off the back of the tube. Since you mentioned you've already removed the forearm band, then your gun must be a carbine? So it has another band up near the front sight that also needs to be removed to allow the forearm and mag tube to come off.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
DesertDave
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by DesertDave »

Thank you for your reply. Exactly why I asked the question! Working on not breaking anything on the old girl. So not a carbine, my nomenclature it off I guess. It is a 26" barrel with one metal retaining piece at the front of the fore stock held to a dovetailed bar across the barrel. There is one screw at the front screwed into a dovetailed piece at the front of the barrel.

So from what you are saying I would need to remove the metal piece from the fore stock moving it forward. Then the little screw at the front of the tube. At that point it should slide forward and out of the action? It is pretty stick so more work on soaking the inside of the action in penetrant it looks like and then some heat.

Thank you again! I really appreciate all the advice I have gotten on this blog. You guys and gals are an invaluable asset!
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marlinman93
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Re: Early 1893 Stuck Firing Pin

Post by marlinman93 »

Close. You remove the forearm cap screws. (one on each side) Then slide the cap forward to clear the hanger they screw into. Then remove the single front screw from the mag tube. Then the magazine is pulled down away from the barrel until it clears that hanger at the muzzle it fits over. Be careful to keep a finger over the plug on the end of the tube so it wont launch across the room. Might not be a problem if it's stuck inside the tube.
Once the tube clears the hanger stud, then you can pull the assembly forward of the receiver and then slide the forearm wood backwards off the tube. The mag follower and spring will extend out as you do, so catch the follower to keep from losing it. Once off, you can pull the spring to clean it, and the plug off the end. Then use a cleaning rod and a brush to clean the inside of the tube. A mop with a light oil can be applies inside, but very sparingly. Then reassemble the reverse to put it together.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
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