Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

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desertminer
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Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

Hello everyone,

Allow me to introduce myself and the project I am working on. My name is Corbin and I am new to the forum here and just sent in my membership fees to join the association. I am currently working on a project to catalog/record every 1881 Marlin rifle I can find. The previous work done by Maxwell and Brophy to explore and discuss the factory records gave us great insights as to what they contain, and what might be learned from them. I am interested in the information outside the scope of the factory records.

A few questions I hope to answer are:

-What are the actual quantity and serial number break-in for each receiver variation?

-At what serial number do the barrel addresses change from the one line, to the two line ‘J.M.’ to the two line ‘Marlin Fire-Arms’?

-At what serial number range do the rifles begin being factory drilled and tapped? Early rifles were not.

-Rough totals of different special order features to be compared with the records.

-Which famous individuals or group used or sold 1881 Marlins, and, which rifles (via serial number) can be tied to them? (This includes outlaws, lawmen, soldiers, gunsmiths of the era, Native Americans, etc)

I have seen and heard many guesses to all these questions, but I am interested in finding out definitively. Currently I have a little less than 350 rifles recorded and add more almost every day. I have pulled rifle information from past auction catalogs, gun shops, gun shows, books, personal collections, and museums. I met a gentleman at a local gun show that suggested I join the Marlin Firearms Collectors Association and forums to help in this endeavor.

My end goal is to be able to produce a book to share the information I have discovered, provide excellent reference pictures of the rifle and all variations (receivers and otherwise), and to tell the story of historical individuals that used the 1881 Marlin. I have a passion for this rifle and want to help expand the information known about them.

Now, I have quite a ways to go in terms of rifles recorded before I would write a book, but I am hoping with the help from the members of the Marlin Firearms Collectors Association I can add many more rifles to my list.

If you have an 1881 Marlin and would like to help, send me a message on here, or send me an email at: 1881marlin@gmail.com and we can discuss your rifle. Additionally, if you know of any museum, gun shop, or individual that has one in their collection and might be interested in helping, please share my email with them or let me know so I can contact them. I am also interested in amassing stories concerning 1881 Marlins. If you have anything like that to share I would love to hear it, or if you know of any books with information concerning 1881 Marlins I would love to know.

Thank you all, and I look forward to being part of this knowledgeable community.
Corbin
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Corbin;

I can help you with several of your requests. A friend of mine and I have recorded information regarding the rebated Model 1881 for a number of years, and have narrowed down the change from rebated to non-rebated within a few numbers. That information alone will surprise you considering what has been written in the past. We also have narrowed down the change from the one line J. M. Marlin barrel marking to the two line J. M. Marlin barrel marking, although there was some mixing of barrels during the production, and they are intermixed towards the end of the one line marking.
Something you apparently have not encountered yet is the front magazine barrel stud. On the very early guns, the side of the barrel stud is flush with the sides of the barrel. Again, very early guns.
I think you will find that the records after 4,096 are pretty complete and accurate as far as special order items are concerned. Although I cannot rembemer any mention of Model 1881's listed that have the Schuetzen or Swiss style butt plate. These are rare. Not all rifle style butt plated found on the large frame guns are noted in the records, either, but a few are. Note on page 237 of Sam Maxwell's book the notation under special order features something labeled Rib. B and 25 guns are recorded. A close examination of the actual factory records show that the "b" in Rib is actually an "f" which means these large frame guns are Rif. B or equipped with a rifle butt.
Will be glad to help in any way possible.
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Road King
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by Road King »

Hi Corbin great meeting at the gun show and glad you have joined our organization. I am sure you will gain a lot of information from our members. Looking forward to folowing this thread.

Brian
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desertminer
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

Regnier,

It is great to hear from you. Brian had mentioned that you and another gentleman had conducted a survey of early guns. Through the comparatively small number of guns I have been able to locate (vs production total) I could definitely tell that there was a difference between what has been written and what actually exists, but it is fantastic to hear that there is someone else that has been working on a similar project. I had suspected that some mixing in production with the barrels may have occurred since it seems in general that when Marlin made a change in production it wasn’t a clean break, but rather gradual. I had been able to narrow the change from JM to Marlin to a range of 1000 guns. I had not encountered the change in the front magazine barrel stud, but the number of two digit or less serial numbers I have been able to located is limited – I currently only have six rifles below SN 100. I have noted rifles with the Swiss/ Schuetzen style of butt plate, but I was uncertain if that was an off the books special order item, or something added on by various gunsmiths after being sold. Through my research I found one rifle converted by an ‘E Flues’ to have a Swiss/ Schuetzen style butt plate. I have not yet recorded that rifle, but believe it may be owned by a member of these forums. It had a fantastic story attached to it that I would love to save and share. That is fascinating concerning the true meaning of the Rif. B. I had seen that in Maxwells book but couldn’t make sense of what that could be. Butt plates are ones of the items I have noted in my record.
I would love to talk more in depth about what you have found and I would be open to anything you are willing to share! However you would feel comfortable doing so would be good with me.



Brian,
Thank you again, it is excellent to discuss with those of similar interest.



Cheers,
Corbin
Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Corbin;

The information I have is quite lengthy. It will take me a little time to find all of my notes and put them together for you.
Concerning the Schuetzen or Swiss butt plates, if you notice, they are the style used on the Ballard target rifles like the #8, #9 and #10 Schuetzen Jr. models. Which of course makes sense, since Marlin produced Ballard rifles prior to the Model 1881, which of course was not designated as the Model 1881 until 1888. Up to that time, it was advertised as the Marlin Repeating Rifle.
It really should have been designated the Model 1880 as I have a Marlin flyer dated March 1881, with a letter from a dealer in Denver stating the Model 1881 was "dead medicine" for bears. So, if the guns had time to be made, shipped to Denver and used there, and then a letter returned to New Haven, Ct., and the time to print the flyer, it would seem that those guns shipped to Denver should have been made and shipped either late 1880 or very early 1881. As an interesting note, serial number 75 was one of those guns. It has a very interesting history.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
desertminer
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

Regnier,

Take as long as you need to gather the information. I will also be more than happy to give credit where credit is due. I want to make sure yourself and your friend receive credit for the work you have done to record this information.

I hadn’t thought of it that way, concerning their similarity to the Ballard rifle stocks; that makes complete since given it was core to Marlins previous work. Even though it wasn’t advertised, I can’t imagine it would have been something difficult for them to do if it was requested by a customer.

I had seen mention of just such an advertisement in one of the books I have used as reference, but I have never seen the ad myself. I would be very interested in hearing the history of serial number 75. In the course of my research I ran into serial number 50 which still had the bill of sale from when it was originally sold, and I believe it was sold in May 1881. They had to have been in production for at least a little while before in order to be made, shipped, and sold by the first few months of the year.
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marlinman93
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by marlinman93 »

I've seen several 1881's with the small Farrow Swiss buttplate, and have owned two myself. But only one showed in a record search as having the Swiss buttplate. But the buttplates were serialized to the guns, so they were original. As Regnier mentioned they are rare. One of mine was a small frame 1881, and the other two were large frame 1881's.

By the way; the Flues Model 1881 is in my safe. I've owned it for quite some time.
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desertminer
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

marlinman93,

It is good to hear from you. While researching 1881’s I ran across the story you shared of how you were able to track down and put together information on Emil Flues. I was very impressed by the amount of work you did to put the story together. If you would allow me, I would really like to record that rifle and to save that story in as much detail as you would like to share. Currently I have 4 rifles recorded with Swiss butt plates.
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marlinman93
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by marlinman93 »

No problem desertminer. Not sure if it is totally relevant since it likely didn't come from the factory with the small Swiss buttplate, and was probably added when Emil Flues rebuilt it for Judge Harriman. I had two others with Swiss buttplates, but unfortunately didn't retain the serial numbers on either when I sold them.
One was a very unique straight grip 1881 large frame in .40-60M with a factory 24" half octagon barrel, and half mag tube. I was amazed when I saw it originally, and never had seen a straight gripped with Swiss buttplate. It all lettered for the features it had, which was great! I have a picture here, if you'd like to see it?
The other was a small framed 1881 in .38-55 Ballard, with deluxe pistol grip stocks, and full length mag tube, and 28" barrel. Looked like what you'd expect a Swiss butt 1881 should be. Might have a picture of it also, but not sure?
I sold most of my unusual 1881 collection when I got deeper into Marlin Ballard rifles, but the Flues will never go up for sale, unless I found some magnificent Ballard I could trade it for.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
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marlinman93
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by marlinman93 »

Pictures I found of my 1881 large frame with 24" 1/2 octagon barrel. Not a creampuff, but a good gun in an unusual configuration.

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desertminer
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

That wouldn’t be a problem at all; I have noted non-original guns but I enter them differently. A gun converted by someone like Emil Flues fits in perfectly with what I want to do with the second half of the book. I would like to write brief bios about individuals/groups that could be tied to specific guns via serial number. I have about 20 noteworthy individuals/groups/events currently that I have been able to tie guns to, and the rifle converted by Flues would be a perfect example of that. I think that by telling the story of different individuals, or groups, or of major events, in the context of the guns that were actually there, it would be a good way to preserve the 1881 Marlins’ place in history.

That is a beautiful rifle! I will retain this information and these pictures in my reference file so that if I run across it I can see if it matches the description. You wouldn’t still happen to have the letter would you? We might be able to pull the serial number off of that.
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marlinman93
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by marlinman93 »

I didn't think about it, but I think there is a chance I still have a letter or yellow sheet for that 1881! I'll look through the files I have for old Marlin repeaters I've sold and see if it's there. At one time I had a dozen 1881 Marlins. Always liked them, but never really sought them out. Somehow they just seemed to multiply in my collecting.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
desertminer
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

Excellent! If you happen to have the info for that, send me an email at 1881marlin@gmail.com along with the Flues stuff.

Interestingly enough I hear a lot of people say that about 1881’s, about not collecting them specifically. Maybe it’s just the small circle of people whom I have talked too, but most collect categories of rifles that 1881’s can fall into, like old Marlin rifles in general, or old lever action rifles, etc.
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by marlinman93 »

I was mainly interested in 1893 Marlins, but that began because my first 1893 was also the first Marlin I ever bought. It is a 26" takedown in .25-36, and others followed it. Funds were tight back then, and I could still buy very nice 1893's in various configurations for $250-$400 all the time. I recall when I bought my first 1893 that cost $500 and I told my friend, "Well that''s a first, to pay over $400 for an 1893 Marlin!"
I eventually ended up with over 100 pre WWI Marlin rifles in every model made, and the 1893's were the most represented for calibers and configurations. But the 1881's were second in line!
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
desertminer
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Re: Attention 1881 Marlin Owners!

Post by desertminer »

For myself that has been a contributing factor in collecting Marlins; the cost is far more affordable than Winchesters, original Colts, or original Smith and Wessons. I find them more interesting too.


A bit of an update how my project is progressing:


I am currently up to ~375 rifles recorded.

I have plans to go through the personal diaries of a recorded 1881 Marlin owner/user and Metal of Honor winner. I am hoping to find some evidence on which rifle he used.

I will be conducting metallurgical testing on an old 1881 receiver that has a crack rendering it unsafe for any further use. I will be testing small samples in an SEM (Scanning Electron Microscope) and an XRF (X-Ray Fluorescent Analyzer) which can give me relative abundances of different elements. Using those abundances I should be able to determine what the modern equivalent of the metal would be which should be able to tell us a lot about what kind of forces it can withstand. That isn’t to say that I am looking to push an 1881 to its limits, but it would give us better insights beyond the current understanding which is simply that it’s just soft.

I am looking into different avenues to figure out which rifle was owned by John Slaughter. He was a Sheriff in Arizona and in 1898 he used what I believe is an 1881 to kill a man in self-defense. The museum that houses most of his collection doesn’t possess his 1881, so I will be trying his ranch next, and beyond that it will be searching for old court records to see if the rifle was taken in for evidence at all. They may have recorded something that would be of use, or even the serial number itself.
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