1893 Marlin date of manufacture

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jkirk49
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1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by jkirk49 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:53 am

I have an old 1893 Marlin that was a parts gun that I just repaired back to shooter condition. I'm a little confused about the manufacture date though. The serial number is 12xx and when I plug that in it comes up as built before 1893. How can that be?

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:21 pm

Jkirk49;

Is this rifle a Model 1893, or a Model '93? Where is the serial number located? (near the forearm or under the lever) Is it marked Marlin Firearms Company or Marlin Firearms Corporation?
After 1916, serial numbers changed and a new system was utilized which is why a 4 digit number confuses things.
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by jkirk49 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:51 pm

This was an old stripped receiver I had laying around. It's marked Model 1893 on the upper tang and Marlin Safety on top and the side of the upper tang is marked 653. The serial number is on the bottom near the forearm. The barrel I had is marked Marlin Firearms CO. New Haven and says special smokeless Like I was saying this was a parts gun, or more accurately, a box full of gun parts that I reassembled so not sure if everything came from the same rifle.

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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:37 pm

Jkirk49;

You do have a mixed bag of parts there. The marking Model 1893 was discontinued about 1920 in favor of Model '93. The lower tang number does not match the receiver number, so the lower tang is from another gun.
Does this receiver have the lower tang support screw in the left side of the receiver? If it does, then the receiver is after 1895 when smokeless powder came out. Is the top of the receiver drilled and tapped for the Marlin-Hepburn receiver sight? If it is, then it was made after August 1, 1903. If not, then it was made before that date.
If this receiver does not have the lower tang support screw, I would be using lower pressure loads to shoot. That screw was added after smokeless powder came out to give some support to the lever that was holding the breech bolt in place. The higher pressures of the smokeless powders cause the lower tang to flex somewhat so the screw was added to help back up the lever and support the lower tang.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

jkirk49
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by jkirk49 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:51 pm

Yep it has the support screw on the left side and is also tapped on top for the receiver sight

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shootrj2003
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by shootrj2003 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:38 am

The model 1893 became the mod.93' in 1905 so you receiver is pre 1905 and ,the barrel,if marked "special Smokeless Steel" and in good clean condition , properly installed and head spaced,capable of shooting modern ammunition loaded to normal pressures .What is the caliber of this rifle?30/30 cartridges as loaded in 1894-1895,varied little pressure wise from all but the hottest 30/30 cartridges loaded today.38-55,32-40 and 32 win. Spl which were all the choices available then are all loaded to fairly mild pressure also,32 /40 might be tricky to find but still findable.From what you have stated the chances are pretty good( not 100% however) that the parts were all from the same rifle,and built before 1905,condition wise do they match is another hint,a silvery case hardened receiver with a nicely blued barrel would indicate a replacement,while if the barrel was equally worn a more likely match. I hope this helps ,more info from you is better also.
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Shootrj2003;

The model marking did not change from Model 1893 to Model '93 in 1905 as stated in the Brophy book. We now know that it did not change until about 1920 when the war was over and the Marlin Firearms Corporation started making sporting arms after the war. The top of the receiver was drilled and tapped for the Hepburn receiver sight after August of 1903. So, this receiver was made sometime between 1903 and 1920. Without knowing what the original receiver serial number was, this is as close as we can get. The short number of 653 may be only the last 3 numbers of a 6 digit serial number, so this leaves us in the dark.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

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shootrj2003
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by shootrj2003 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:33 am

With all due respect,gunrunner,not trying to be disrespectful,would not dream of it,what is the source of your information,or ,how did we come to the conclusion that the" 1893" marking was not changed until "1920 or so."how do we know this?i am not a Marlin expert by any means but I am a Marlin lover and people I know ask me about them when they have a question,and if my major source ( Brophy's") is wrong I need to know for sure,after all it was written and put together with the help and assistance of people who were there as workers and management using Company records.Apparently I missed a discovery of some information,and this is very likely because I step in here sme times "intermittently "but I do want to be right about our favorite subject.thanks
being of a mind that an armed populace is a free populace.... i'm armed!

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:40 pm

Shootrj2003;

It is long and complicated, but here goes. We know that Marlin started with serial number 1 and used numbers consecutively for all models up to 355,500 in December of 1906. We also know now that the serial numbers ran above 450,000 ( I have Brophy's notes he kept on known serial numbers ). We also know that a serial number in the 442,000 range was shipped in the "fall of 1913" per the 1915 Marlin catalog because the gun mentioned in the catalog is known. If you will look him up and some of his posts, Parley Baer was tracking serial numbers of guns during this era. I also have a copy of his notes that pretty much confirm this information.
No Marlin Model '93's are known to have a 6 digit serial number. They usually have a 4 digit number or a letter prefix along with the 4 digit number. After Marlin Arms and Marlin-Rockwell took over the company in 1916, to keep employees busy between war contracts, they continued to manufacture sporting arms but utilized a new serial numbering system. The guns made during the war will have the letter A, B, C or D prefix, and the serial number will be located up by the forearm, such as the Marlin Firearms Company did prior to 1916. These guns are all marked "Model 1893"(except of course the Models 1895, '94, '92 and '97). After WW I ended and the new Marlin Firearms Corporation took over, the serial numbers were moved to back under the lever and the model designation was changed to "Marlin Mod. '93". The serial numbers may or may not have a letter prefix.
Something to remember is that the Brophy book was published in 1989. A lot of new information has come to light with other people researching for information since that book was printed.
Bill Brophy was diagnosed with bladder cancer while working on the book and he had to hurry the final product along as Frank Kenna (Chairman of the Board at Marlin) wanted the book to include the entire Marlin line of products which was not Brophy's initial project. Some of what he published was estimated as he did not have enough time to get more information. The book as Brophy wanted to do was to be on the lever guns only, so somethings kinda got hurried over.
Much of this has been discussed here over the years. I cannot tell you how to search for the information, but it has been discussed here.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

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shootrj2003
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Re: 1893 Marlin date of manufacture

Post by shootrj2003 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:24 pm

Thank you Gunrunner,
That information is interesting and I appreciate the time and effort you put into that answer for my question.i know how long it would have taken for me to write that out ,as usual,my respect for you is not misplaced.it seems there is enough info for a " Marlin Firearms II" out there.As always the story behind the story is intriguing .my first big rifle was a Marlin 336 ,30/30 and my story with that rifle is a campfire tale and I still own it,unfortunately I recently had to use my meager collection to help my son in a worthwhile cause which was successful.however I still have my old 1893 also( 1900mfg.) and my 1950 39A and several other .22's ,one of which I shoot in NY Sporterifle shoots every week ,in which I am team Captain.i use my Marlins in field and range and was disappointed in their recent sale ,but ,the story goes on ,thank you again
being of a mind that an armed populace is a free populace.... i'm armed!

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