Marlin 1894 25-20 question

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Hauptmann
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Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

Hi all. Thanks for letting me be a part of this fine forum.

My father collected guns most of his life and I was supposed to inherit them all. Instead they were stolen after he died by the woman (an ex wife I never knew he had till I was in my 30's) he was with at the time of his death. He and my mom had separated and divorced and his sisters got him hooked back up with this woman. They lived in Abingdon Maryland while myself and my family were living in Florida. She supposedly "gave" them all to a Maryland state trooper "friend" of my dad's (with friends like that who needs enemies?) who told her she could not let me inherit them and take them out of state... which was BS. Many of them were black powder and could have simply been shipped. The rest could have been shipped to an FFL although we were there when he passed (2002) and could have brought them all back. She wouldn't allow it. Tried to go the legal route but was told it would have cost a minimum of $8,000 and no guarantee of winning. If I lost they could counter sue. Also that the state trooper union up there was very strong and basically they could get away with murder. Joy! I wasn't going to put my family at risk financially other otherwise so I dropped it.

The collect "was" my dad to me. It represented our best times together. There were just under 50 pieces in the collection and there were even custom cases my father had made himself which also meant the world to me. Gets my BP up just thinking about it.

Anyhow, the long and the short of it is I have been keeping an eye out on the various gun forums and sales sites, etc., in the hopes some of his guns might pop up for sale or be posted. Although I'd love to see the "thief" caught and punished and the guns retrieved I don't think that will ever happen. I have an old inventory of it all that I did back in the day. Some had SN's but some of the older ones didn't.

There was a Marlin 1894 25-20 in the collection that I've wondered about forever and a day. It was in a dark wood, had an octagon barrel but the unusual thing was it had what I can only call a patch or grease box (had grease or some kind of lubricant in it) in silver on the side of the stock... round for the most part... at least the compartment lid was round. The butt was also in silver... thick and well worn. Was always told that that and the side compartment had been made from old Mexican pesos back in the day... but no idea if that's true.

So I wondered if anyone had any knowledge of any of these rifles having such accessories done by the factory or as an add on which could be purchased and put on later? Reason being is two fold. If this was not common and most likely was done by a gunsmith as custom work back in the day it would make it unique and a bit easier to find if it was ever listed for sale, etc. If it was commonly done, then if nothing else, if I'm ever able to afford a replacement I could have it done fairly close to dad's. Not ideal but may be the best option open to me.

The value of his guns (which was considerable) meant nothing to me. It was the sentimental value... the good times with my dad that they represented and that I wanted to pass these down to my child. I've been robbed of all that but over time have managed to replace a couple of the guns he had to at least try to recapture some of those times.

Anyhow if anyone could give me any info or knowledge on such work being done on these Marlin's I'd be most grateful.

Many thanks!

Dan
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marlinman93
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by marlinman93 »

Although Marlin did offer special order features, and even went as far as buying buttplates or other items from other gun makers in the area, I doubt the custom work you described would ever have come out of Marlin's factory. Sounds more like a custom alteration that an owner would have done to personalize his 18944.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Hauptmann
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

Many thanks for the quick reply. It's been a ton of years since I last saw this or the other guns in my father's collection, but I tend to agree with you that it was likely a privately done custom job. Hoping it's unique enough that if it ever shows up and I see it I might have a chance at recovering it one way or the other. This was one of a particular set of his guns that meant more to me than all the rest. Sadly I fear there's probably little chance in reality of ever getting any of them back... but I have tried to keep hope alive.

I actually all but got out of guns for years after all this happened. I avoided buying more guns, reading about guns... pretty much just shelved it all and what I had just collected dust in my den. Moved from Florida to North Dakota and was here for a few years when my beloved wife up and said there's a gun show in town today and we're going and you're GOING to buy a gun! We went, and although I saw many I would have loved to have I came home, got on the web, found one I liked better and got it. Since then I've gotten back into the swing of things. Needless to say I have Kim to thank for it... she's one in a trillion! :D *beep*, she even founded the Second Amendment Sisters back in 1999-2000. She's the greatest!

Will continue to keep my eyes peeled for the Marlin or one of the others to show up. Perhaps God will smile on me yet in this regard and allow me to find one or more of them.

Thanks again!

Dan
Brent
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Brent »

I'll keep an eye out for it. Sounds like a one of a kind patch box.

I've tracked several other rifles around. They are findable more often than I would have guessed, had I not actually done a couple of times.

Here is one, however, I haven't found again, but would sure like to.

Image
Hauptmann
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

Hi Brent. Many thanks for the comment and for keeping an eye out for me. I'll do that same. That's a beautiful piece... not one I'd soon forget. If I run into it I'll give you a shout right away.

I'll see if I can do a search... probably won't be till I'm on my next days off next week... and try to show examples of what dad's Marlin looked like as far as wood color, etc. If I can find a similar patch box I'll pop on a pic of that as well. I'm pretty sure I have pics someone... or video of the collection when it was at my house in Florida for a time... but it's all on VHS and so I'd have to dig and do a lot of searching to find it, then convert to digital, etc. One day I'll try time permitting. Used to have a polaroid of the collection from when I was little but no idea where that's gone to. It's one of those things that if only I had known I'd have taken tons of pics and video of every piece he had... but as I was to inherit them all I didn't see as much of a need at the time. If only... sigh. :(

I pray it turns up some day... she's a beauty. Even a duplicate would end up costing me an arm and a leg plus having to have the silver patch box and butt put on it... perhaps even custom made... I dread thinking about it.

One of the pieces he had that meant the world to me was an Intercontinental Arms Dakota .357 revolver. I did manage to get a duplicate of that after years of searching. She's a beaut although set with a hair trigger. But she's a joy to fire either in .357 or .38. So that's one down... tons to go. Most of them I've no hope of duplicating. At 55 my memory has faded on many details. Unless something was "special" in my mind or I have the SN then it's pretty much gone unless I spot most or all of the collection being sold at one time. For all I know the SOB who stole them had tons of kids and if he dies it'll get spread out to all of them. I'll never understand how people can live with themselves or sleep at night knowing that they did something like this. Due to all this I've still not been able to mourn my father. It's just a very very fresh wound even this many years later and it may never heal. I never asked for his collections... but from day one was always told over and over that it would all be mine when the day came that he left us. He just didn't bargain on those around him betraying him and his. But kharma is a funny thing... what goes around comes around so I'm sure he'll get his as will the ex wife. They'd get no sympathy from me, that's for sure.

Dan
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marlinman93
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by marlinman93 »

My father sold his few guns before I was even born, so I never had a chance to see them or get them. I always wished I could have owned at least one, even though none of them were valuable guns or hard to find. Not being a gun guy, he couldn't even tell me the models he had. He knew the manufacturer, and caliber, so I searched and found various pictures to show him so he could identify what he had. Once he identified a couple guns he had, I searched local gun shows until I found examples of both and bought them. Both were Remington single shot rifles. One was a #4 .22 and the other was a #1 Rolling Block in .45-70 caliber.
When I got both guns I waited for his next visit and brought them out to get his reaction. It was priceless to see how excited he got at seeing the two guns that he once owned, even though these were simply the same model, and not the same guns. It brought back a flood of memories and stories of hunting with the two guns when he was a kid in Central Washington.
I knew I could never find two such average guns, but I've never regretted buying the two similar examples. I still own them, and can't take them out or shoot them without remembering my dad's reaction to them. You may never find the guns your dad owned, but it may give you a little peace to find something similar, and move forward with your own memories and pass those guns on to your kids.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Hauptmann
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

Hi all. I know it's been a while but I have an update... at least to me an extremely exciting update.

I've continued to look for a Marlin to replace my dad's all these years. Have come close a few times but always seem to get out bid and I'm back to square one. Last time was about a month ago. I've been going at it hot and heavy since and yet just the same old stuff kept being listed. Sigh. So decided as of Sunday night I was going to give it a break for two or three weeks and then hope that something new would pop up.

God certainly works in mysterious ways!

Yesterday a friend says I'm coming to town, have a couple meetings and then want to go to the gun shop to pick up a couple M1's she'd ordered. They had one at the shop too and she wanted me to check it out and advise her on it. They close at 6 p.m. and she headed in at 3:15... plenty of time. So I got ready and then decided since I had time I'd brush up on what I needed to know re: buying an M1. I already have one... my dad gave it to me along with an 03-A3 Springfield many many many moons ago. At one point during this I look something up on gunbroker then back on the regular web sites.

Next thing I know it's 5:15 an no sign of my friend. I call... message system. I wait about five minutes... call again and still nothing. It gets to be 5:36 and I'm like if she doesn't get here by say ten till then we're not going to make it. I'm on edge and need to get my mind off it for a few minutes. I look up and there's my gunbroker window up. What the heck... I'll check Marlin again. I type in Marlin 1894 25 and search. Second listing is new... looks promising, I click on it. Yup, 1894, 25-20, octagon barrel... so far so good. Wood looks like it should. Butt plate looks silver and very much like dad's... good, one less thing I'll have to redo. This is looking up. Sixteen pics... I keep clicking... back of butt stock... wow, this really looks like dad's did... keeping in mind last iime I saw it was twenty-five years ago. Finish looks right... just looking better and better. Plus the price is like 1/3 to 1/2 of what these have been running even with the buy it now which was $150 more... six days to go... must have just been listed. I click to pic 10... and I felt like I got kicked in the chest by a mule... THIS IS DAD's RIFLE!!!! OMG!!!! No mistake... there's the silver (again no idea what to call it for sure) on the right side. It's his... not a doubt in my mind!

Now twenty years ago my dad called and said It's time... you need to come up and get the guns and stuff. I wanted my wife and our son to go up too as it would likely be the last chance to see him. But she couldn't get out of work for one week. My best friend didn't hesitate when I told him... throw a bag together and I'll drive you up, we'll get the stuff even if we have to rent a small u-haul and hitch and then once Kim and Nick get there and y'all are done and ready we'll head back home. But I didn't want to put him out and wanted Kim and Nick to go so I waited. Well, waiting that week cost me everything as he went in the hospital, in a coma and then was gone. :*-(

Then they were all stolen from me out of the estate, etc., and for twenty years I've been in so much pain. All the sadness, anger, hatred, frustration, you name it. For years I couldn't go in a gun shop, gun show, read a gun mag or book... kept what I had but didn't even go shooting. Then one day Kim says there's a gun show in town, we're going and you're GOING to buy a gun! Needless to say I chose wisely!

So here I am... do I wait a week again... risk losing it for good? If I waited and that happened... I don't think I could have dealt with that. So, I hit the buy it now. I got it! Now just have to wait for the payment to get there and then them to ship, get it to me and then a piece of my dad will be back home with us where it always belonged. :-)

I don't have a SN... may not have or if it does it's not in the pics. If there is then hoping that will help to date it if nothing else as I'd love to know when it was made if that's even possible. I know some can't be dated due to lack of records. But, here's hoping! I have to say though... God does look after us and He does make such things happen regardless of the odds against it. Had I not had to kill about ten minutes and keep my mind off things... had I followed through and not looked for three weeks I likely would never have seen or known about it. But something MADE me look again one more time... and there it was! Beyond my wildest dreams!

Also, real quick my understanding is that the butt plate and patch/cap/grease box are real silver made from melted down Mexican Pesos back in the day. Value wise no idea if it adds to it or detracts from it... but it was my dad's, is now mine and to me, that's all that matters. :-)

I'd like to post the pics... I have sixteen... but from what I see it's set up so I have to put them in a host and link to it. I'm used to just being able to do them from my computer. Is there someone who can help me out? I can sent pics if you can post? Please let me know as I'd love for y'all to see it and hopefully be able to give me a little more info. If nothing else at least you'll see that it really truly does exist and is not a figment of my imagination. LOL!

Many thanks!

God bless,

Dan
utvolsfan77
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by utvolsfan77 »

Dan,

I was really excited to hear you recovered at least one of your father's guns and can't wait to see the pics. I have an account on IMGUR so if you want, you could email them to me at "utvolsfan77@yahoo.com" and I'll post them for you here. However, I think Yahoo limits attachments to 10 megabytes per message, so if your photos are high resolution and you send me all of them, you may have to do it in multiple messages.

The story of your father's guns reminded me of a similar experience. My mother and father divorced when I was two years old, and we lived with her parents for several years afterward. Her father was my hero growing up, but he passed in 1974 when I was about 14. He had a Winchester model 1897 pump action shotgun in 16 gauge he took with him every time he went to the woods. The few times he let me tag along with him are among my most cherished childhood memories. I am the oldest of nine grandchildren and the oldest grandson. After his passing, my grandmother always told me that his shotgun would pass to me upon her death. The last time I handled that shotgun was in the late 1970s, not long before I enlisted in the U.S. Army. Unfortunately, I was serving on active duty at the time of her passing. My mother and her three younger sisters could not seem to agree on anything, especially issues on how to dissolve the estate, and as so often happens in these situations, the estate settlement was forced into court. That shotgun somehow ended up going to a first cousin - the youngest grandson.

Monetarily, that 1897 Winchester isn't particularly valuable but the personal sentimental value to me is absolutely priceless. To say I was heart broken and still am, even 30 years later, would be a major understatement so I really do feel your pain and understand your disappointment.

Billy
Hauptmann
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

Hey Billy, my deepest thanks for your offer of assistance. Just wrote you and sent over what you'll hopefully need. Hope you like what you see and pray you'll be able to get your dad's back sometime too... soon I pray. :-)

Will stay in a holding pattern.

God bless,

Dan
utvolsfan77
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by utvolsfan77 »

Posting the pics below from GunBroker.com for Dan:

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utvolsfan77
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by utvolsfan77 »

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utvolsfan77
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by utvolsfan77 »

Dan,

This was the best I could do. I couldn't get the larger photos to save from GunBroker, so I did individual screen grabs, cropped the margins, then posted them. Anyone wanting to see enlarged versions of those above can use the GunBroker link you sent me if you want to post it.

By the way, that Winchester 1897 shotgun was actually my grandfather's, not my father's, but you made some good points that I'll pursue soon.

Billy
Hauptmann
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

Hey Billy... again my deepest thanks! Sorry I miss typed that... meant Grandfather. But keep me posted and I'll be praying hard that you can get it back. Would love to see pics if you do. Love the pics! You did a great job! With luck I'll be able to find out more about the old girl. :-)

Thanks again!

God bless,

Dan
utvolsfan77
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by utvolsfan77 »

Dan,

Are you sure that the buttplate and the patchbox are made out of silver? In looking through the pics, both parts appear to have a slight yellow tint to them, and that is usually an indication that they are made from some sort of brass alloy. I've seen silver tarnish on older guns over time, but I've never seen it take on this yellowish white tint. I really think someone might have been pulling your leg on the story about the Mexican pesos.
Hauptmann
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Re: Marlin 1894 25-20 question

Post by Hauptmann »

This is my understanding. If other metal was mixed in for whatever reason I've no idea. Plus I won't truly know it's condition till I have it in hand. Again I've not laid eyes on this for twenty five years. I know as a kid when I cleaned them I would polish the silver and it would shine like no tomorrow with no other colors... just the silver. No idea where it's been, what kind of environment or even how many hands this went through. The person who took them originally got them out of Abingdon Maryland. The shop I'm getting it back from is in VA and he wrote back and said it was from someone out of PA. The areas make sense... but again no idea of their history since my dad passed. When he had them up there he kept them in a closet in a room he used as his den. There were just under fifty pieces in the collection, rifles and pistols from a flintlock rifle, Civil War revolvers, Trapdoor springfield, antique pocket pistols, a S&W police from the 30's (no exact date) marked to the Essex Md. PD from back then, a Dakota .357 revolver (I have the SN for that one). One of the CW revolvers had the original officers name (A Lt. I believe it was) engraved on the backstrap. I have a number for that one.). Other rifles, pistols, a few shotguns. There were some swords, bayo's and knives. He had a collection of locks and keys, antiques, models and parts (wooden boats). A small library of references on these subjects. Lots of this was apparently just put in garbage bags and thrown into a local dumpster at the condo where he lived at the time of his passing. The firearms were taken by that former Md State Trooper. :-( There were even a couple of wood display/storage cases with the revolvers that my dad made himself from scratch... all gone. Meant the world to me but to anyone else, just a bunch of guns. I grew up with these and they represented my dad and our happiest times to me. It's been a very painful twenty years and it's on going.

I'll be happy to do more pics if that would help once it's in hand. But it may be upwards of two weeks give or take.

Dan
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