What makes a .45-90, not a .70?

[Brent]

Besides the chamber, what is the difference between the .45-70 and .45-90 Marlin 1895 (the real ones)? I presume that .45-70s will cycle in a .45-90 but maybe not. Does a second cartridge try to enter the carrier and jam it when raising the first cartridge? Will a .45-70 carrier lift a .45-90 cartridge?

I need to load a few dummy rounds and figure this out for myself, but I'm curious because I have a .45-70, rebarreled and chambered to modern dimensions. I do not want to convert it to a .45-90, but I would like to load cartridges quite long if possible, and I don't know what, besides the chamber, limits cartridge length in a .45-70. My feeling is that it is the carrier, but I don't know for sure.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Brent;

According to the 1897 Marlin catalog, the Marlin Model 1895 used the same action for all calibers. So, if one purchased a takedown action, he could, in effect have one gun in six different calibers: viz .38-56, .40-65, .40-70, .40-82, .45-70 and .45-90. So, there is not difference in the action for these calibers. Later, after the .33 Winchester was added and made the total seven different calibers for the Model 1895. The later catalog did state that the magazine capacity for the .40-70, .40-82 and .45-90 was one less than the other calibers because the cartridge shells were longer.

[Brent]

Interesting!

I'll have to try it and see if I can lift and eject a long cartridge. What I have in mind is a paper patched bullet with grease cookie and blackpowder. That makes the 2.1" case a bit challenging without going to a long throat and a long cartridge.

[jorgy]

Rick one difference I have noticed in the 1895s I own is that your lifter will vary from one caliber to another. If you compare a lifter from a 33 win to a 45-70 or a 45-90 you will notice the difference right away. the lifter from a 45-70 is flat across while the one from a 33 win has a noticeable curve or cradle to it. I would say the caliber difference is the story e.g. .33 cal to .45 cal.

[jorgy]

You can shoot a 45-70 shell in a 45-90 chamber all day with no harm done but not vice versa. you cannot shoot a 45 90 in a 45-70 chamber.

[Brent]

After playing around a little it seems that the carrier will accept no cartridges longer than 2.9" in overall length. So long but not remendously so. My .45-70 moose load was 3.02". I'll have to fiddle around some more.

[Brent]

After playing around a little it seems that the carrier will accept no cartridges longer than 2.9" in overall length. So long but not tremendously so. My .45-70 moose load was 3.02" with a 480 grn bullet. But I have a 420 gr mould that will just barely make the length issue work. The chamber is too steep though, but if I have it throated out in the right way, it will be fine.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Keith;

The catalogs mention that the .33 W and the .45-70 Lightweight barrels will interchange. I suspect that the carrier or cartridge lifter in both Lightweight actions have the same style of lifter. Have you looked at a .45-70 Lightweight lifter to see if it has the same machining as in your .33 W caliber gun? I would think that this is just another way Marlin reduced the weight of the action in the Lightweight guns. All that work to remove, maybe a few ounces of metal (if that much) in the action. The shorter, round barrel and half magazine in the Lightweight guns is where most of the weight is saved.

[Brent]

FWIW, I have both the concave lifter and the flat one. I can't recall which originally came with my bastardized rifle, but it did have a .33 W barrel with it that was almost certainly NOT it's original barrel. I find the flat carrier works better however. Might be just my particular rifle is better tuned for it somehow.

[marlinman93]

Marlin has always used different carriers for different calibers, and this has held true for the 1895, 1894 and 1893 models. Unsure about any others. So having a takedown in multiple barrels would require choosing one of the carriers and hoping it worked for other calibers. I had a two barrel 1893 set, but calibers were .30-30 and .32 Spl. so no issues with carriers.

[jorgy]

I have had both my 33 & 45-70(it is not a lightweight) torn down at different times & the difference between the 2 carriers is noticeable. I think what Brent is referring to loaded length of the shell. When I reload for Marlins I always check the overall
length of the shell other wise it will not cycle thru the action. I agree with MM93"s post.

[Brent]

While the carrier will handle 2.9", and the chamber can be made to handle whatever, the limiting factor appears to be what will eject. And that limit is determined by the distance between the ejector stop and the barrel stub where the extractor cut out resides. That distance is roughly 2.75". Anything longer and you have to pull the bolt to clear the rifle of a loaded round.

I have oft wondered why the barrel stub sticks back so far like that and what if it didn't (i.e, if it was reduced to conform with the port dimensions of the receiver)?

[marlinman93]

Since Marlin offered the 1895 in .45-90, I'd guess they would be made to accommodate cartridges that length. The question is what they did to allow them to reliably eject and cycle through the action. I'm sure the carrier would be different, but never heard of a different ejector being used?

[Brent]

I the answer to how they were made to load and eject a .70 vs a 90 is just about nothing. That is, there are no differences. After fooling with it, I believe that they were identical in every way but the chamber. That the .45-90 is restricted to an OAL of about 2.75" is probably reasonable since I believe the bullets were deeply seated and short to boot. Now we want long bullets, seated way out of the case - or at least I do. But that wasn't the norm for these at the time where they were being treated as "express" cartridges (light for caliber, fast bullets).

I'm still eyeing that piece of barrel stub in the receiver port and wondering why I can't grind it back a 10th of an inch or so. Still plenty of meet to guide the extractor hook into place.

[marlinman93]

Or if long heavy bullets are used, just load them singly and not through the mag tube.