Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

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flatheadrick
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Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by flatheadrick »

Aside from the two deluxe engraved model 20s recently sold at auction by Julia, is anyone aware of any other engraved deluxe Marlin model 20s? From Ned Schwing's book on Winchester model 1890s I see that until about 1906 very few (less than 50) 1890s were engraved. A quick look at the Winchester records indicate that about 5 times as many 1890s were produced by Winchester each year than model 20s were produced by Marlin so it would seem likely that very, very few deluxe, engraved model 20s were produced by Marlin during its production from 1907-1911. In any event, I would be interested if anyone has any info or thoughts on this subject. Thanks.

Rick Schreiber
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Rick;

At the October 5 & 6, 2010 Julia auction, there were several engraved Model 20, .22 caliber pump action rifles sold from the Rohal collection. Two were gold inlaid (lots 1497 & 1500), one of which sold recently at the auction you mention. Two other guns (lots 1501 & 1502) that were engraved and were sold recently at the same auction. There was one other, lot 1568 in 2010 auction was the last one in that auction to sell.
So that makes at least 5 engraved Model 20 rifles.
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flatheadrick
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by flatheadrick »

Thanks for directing my attention to the 2010 Julia auction. I should have thought to look there too. I have to assume that Richard Rohal had not cornered the market on all existing engraved Model 20s so it would be interesting to know if anyone is aware of other non-Rohal owned engraved model 20s.
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Rick;

Yes, I doubt that Dick Rohal owned them all, not that he did not try! So there may, or should be a few more out there to find. Any deluxe pump rifle is rare and seldom seen, let alone the engraved ones.
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palabra
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by palabra »

I think the engraved model 20's and 27's in Julia's auction last week were the same ones as from the 2010 auction. I compared them closely, even most of the write up was identical. It is confusing that someone would pay so much for these outstanding guns, then sell them for less than originally paid in 2010. The three gun trilogy of engraved marlins sold together were resold for much less money. The write ups even listed their estimated prices below their prices from 2010. I have never seen any other engraved 20's or 27's for that matter other than those from 2010/2016 Julia. I also remember these were all owned by Rohal who displayed them at the OGCA around 2009 about the time they went to the NRA national show.
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Jerry;

The guns sold recently at Julia's was the guns from the 2010 auction. With a little "push", Julia's had to make an addendum to the auction listing on one of the lots that had some restoration by Turnbull's. You cannot tell me that Julia's did not know that these were the same guns, and that they easily could have gone back to the 2010 descriptions for the recent auction. But, they did not until pushed. Compare the descriptions, and see that serial numbers were not listed in the recent auction whereas they were in 2010, from the Rohal collection that would have provided the serial numbers at that time. Frankly, I am getting a little skeptical of all the auction houses. Rock Island Auctions just sold some guns that were sold in the last Julia's auction. Who would go to the Julia auction, then turn right around and sell them at another auction house, especially since there has been some "bad blood" between RIA and Julia's.
Most of the high end pump rifles from the Rohal collection were purchased by a well known national dealer that had a ready made customer to buy them. I guess the customer decided that it was time to make some money and sell them, but it backfired and they took a loss on nearly every one of the items. A number of items in the overall auction did not sell, even though they say "SOLD" at the time.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

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palabra
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by palabra »

I also noticed that some of the 2010 Julia guns were in RIA auction also. I am a Marlin and Ballard collector and have been following the engraved auctions for these for the last 8 years or so. Very few of them in original excellent condition ever come up for sale or auction. Having said that, of the ones I have been seeing, many of them have been auctioned at least twice in that timeframe. I have been unlucky to win most at auction being outbid of course. Then, in a few years, they surface at auction again. It feels as though some supernatural force is trying to bolster the prices. Anyway, the hunt is part of the thrill of owning outstanding deluxe Marlins and Ballards. They are truly rare vs Winchesters which you can find 100 to 1 to Marlins.
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by marlinman93 »

I would agree that fine high end Marlins are much harder to find than more common Winchesters! Even more so for less common Marlins in high grade engraved styles! It's very easy to find engraved Ballards, vs. other Marlin models. And a Model 20 is probably much harder to find in an engraved gun than in an 1893, 1881, etc. would be. Not that any of the engraved Ballards or other Marlins are cheap, but they are easier to find if you can afford them when they show up!
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flatheadrick
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by flatheadrick »

I don't know if any of you compared the quality of the deluxe engraved Marlin model 20s that sold at the last Julia auction with the deluxe engraved Winchester model 1890 that sold at the last RIA auction. In my view, the condition and overall appearance of the Marlins (wood and engraving) was superior to that of the Winchester. Yet the Winchester 1890 sold for about $55,000 whereas the nicest Marlin 20, which even had gold inlays, sold for about $20,000. Why? If anything, a factory engraved deluxe Marlin model 20 is most likely more rare than a factory engraved deluxe Winchester 1890. So,if not condition, aesthetics or rarity, is this differential due primarily to greater demand for fine Winchesters than fine Marlins?

Rick Schreiber
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) »

Rick;

Just like the quantity between the number of Marlins made, and the number of Winchesters made, that is the difference between the number of Marlin collectors and the number of Winchester collectors. Therefore, more chasers after an item makes for higher prices. Winchesters and Colts have always had the advantage in the number of collectors chasing after the limited number of good stuff being offered at any one time.
If you watch any auction that has a number of the same or like items, the lower the price usually is on the first couple of items, then as the number of that item dwindles, the higher the price goes as more get involved in the bidding since the chance to win lessens. It is the old "Supply and demand" theory in action.
Funny world, but we all play the game at some time.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there will be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.
flatheadrick
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Re: Deluxe engraved marlin model 20s

Post by flatheadrick »

Rick,

I agree with your observation and also concur that a vote for HRC because she is a woman is just as your "footnote" suggests.

Rick S.
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