Color case hardening

Anything to do with gun smithing.
silverman1
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Color case hardening

Post by silverman1 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:54 pm

I am getting ready to try my hand at CCH
My problem is my kiln ,is only big enough to accept a 4 in square tube to put actions in ,and it will have to be loaded standing on end.
Can you give me any tips on sheilding etc ?
I figured I would try to weld a tab on the inside of the lid to bolt the actions to ,so the lid would act as sheilding ,and dump it lid first.
Do you think i should make angle iron extensions to go from the lid ,down inside ,or outside to protect the action as it is dumped ?
Should I put some shielding next to the lid ,as seen in some of the posts on here ?
Also should i make a perf.sheet metal,or rod tube to dump the action/lid down into to keep it oriented ?
I was planning on using a 30 gal barrel for quench ,and will a lid with a hole in it help contain the ''explosion''?
Any help from the experts would be greatly appreciated

JPK
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Re: Color case hardening

Post by JPK » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:05 am

To ansewer some of your questions I'll start with the last, yes the lid with a hole does reduce the "explosion". I'm not the expert here but have do enough to have some tips. This picture of a Freund breech block I did a couple of weeks ago. It was windy and a bit of dust got on it for the photo. The mix was 1 part bone to 4 parts wood charcoal heated to 1400 for 1 hour then droped to 1200 till stable. No shielding or guides were used. 30 gallon plastic barrel quench water is city tap water with bubbler going till just befor quench. Then drawn at 375 for one hour, ligth oiled after cool.
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Parley Baer
Distinguished Expert
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Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 12:15 pm

Re: Color case hardening

Post by Parley Baer » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:17 pm

Lots of nice colors in the bolt. :wink:
It's a chancey job and it makes a man watchfull....and a little lonely.

silverman1
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by silverman1 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:53 pm

I re-read back through this again this AM ,and it is mentioned laquering actions.
What kind of laquer?
Any particular brand ?
Aerosol ,or wiped on ?
A woodworkers supply sells spray laquer to put on brass hardware,will this work?
I started to work on a lid ,for my quench barrel.
I am going to cut a hole in the top,large enough to let the 4 in.sq. tube easily drop into it ,and I am in process of threading the ends of a bunch of plated 1/4 dia rods to make a cage out of.
I plan on drilling/tapping the lid ,and putting a lock nut on the lid app. 1 in . apart ,around the radius of the hole in the lid ,and putting a bottom on the same way.
I am trying to find some stainless perf.metal to use as the botton,to stop the lid/parts from hitting the bottom of the plastic barrel.
Any one see any problems with the way I in the last 2 posts plan on doing things ?
Thanks ; Mark

gunsbrad
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by gunsbrad » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:20 pm

JPK,

Nice color. I sure would like to see pics when you get the rest of that one done.

Silverman,

Any lacquer will do. I tried the baking lacquer. It is good and hard after baking but will chip and you can't touch it up without redoing it.

I tried a lot of different rattle can spray lacquer. Any are good but some do not spray too well. I settled on Deft brand, because it is available at my local Lowe's retailer, an because you can spray it on extremely thin, and it lays flat without too much run orange peel etc.

I think your process you mentioned is good enough for a first try. Take plenty o pics and we'll have a look see.

Hope this helps.

Brad Hurt

gunsbrad
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by gunsbrad » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:54 am

Well I redid the Small parts for that 39m yesterday, along with a M-70 type buttplate for a friend. I decided to cut wide sheet matal shield to surround each part, and wire the whole to the tree. My small parts still being the least consistent part of the operation, I figured it couldn't hurt.

Here are all the parts hammer lever and 2 buttplates wired in place with shield. Hopefully you can see enough detail in the shields.

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Here are the parts out of the quench

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Here are the parts all lacquered up.

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I am very satisfied with this pack and hope this method improves my consistency on small parts.

Brad Hurt

JPK
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Re: Color case hardening

Post by JPK » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:30 am

Gunsbrad
That Freund is highly engraved and the fellow did'nt want to do the rest. But here's a 74 Sharps I did before learning here about lower quench temps. Very minor warping on it.
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AJB
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by AJB » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:24 pm

Jim D,

First let me say that this may be the most interesting an informative post I've ever read on any forum. For months, I've been reading and re-reading the information that you and others have been posting. Needless to say, I've also been impressed with the great restoration work that has been displayed.

At some point in the future, I'd like to try my hand at CCH'ing and I'm sure that when I take that step, I'll have many questions. For now, I have just one. When shopping for an oven/furnace, what size chamber should I be looking for?

Thanks for all your efforts and please keep the post going!

AJB

Hornetb
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:31 pm

Re: Color case hardening

Post by Hornetb » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:36 am

Fantastic thread guys, the information is excellent and some top quality results.

I'm currently building an oven to have a go at this, I've created my own bone charcoal and wood charcoal, have the temp controller etc and should be in the position to give it a go very soon.

I've been through all 29 pages of this thread and may have missed it, but following CCH are people doing any heat treating step post CCH as referred to above in the post three post up?

"Then drawn at 375 for one hour, ligth oiled after cool."

What further steps are necessary after the CCH treatment. I suspect there may be a some steps to reduce brittleness but could someone give some input.

Much appreciated, this is by far the most informative post I have seen on the net regarding the process with specifics rather than generic descriptions.

Well done and thanks.

HornetB

gunsbrad
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by gunsbrad » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:52 am

Well fellows I ain't Jim D. but I can offer you my thoughts and experiences.

AJB
I would think the bigger the furnace chamber the better. As a minimum I would figure the largest part you think you would want to do and add a little room for the crucible. I have an Evenheat HT-1. I can get a Win 1873 action in this furnace if I catty corner it, but it will fit with room all around the crucible. I built the crucible big enough I think I could fit a 1876 Win action, but I have never had one to try. Anyhow, if it will fit the 1873 you should be able to do almost any gunparts you can imagine.

Hornetb

You shouldn't be getting any brittleness at these temps unless you are doing extremely thin parts. However I usually draw at 375 for 30 min just because it can't hurt nothing and it might help super thin areas. Much hotter and you will start to change the colors on your part. Then I take the parts out hang them up to cool and lacquer while still warm to the touch but not hot.

Hope this helps fellows

Brad Hurt

Hornetb
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by Hornetb » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:10 pm

Excellent. I appreciate the reply and info.

Pretty much confirmed my suspicions but always good to check.

Thanks, HB

gunsbrad
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by gunsbrad » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:32 pm

Alright folks I am excited I can finally show off a couple of these projects I been workin on. Wood just came back from the checkerer. First is My low wall you have seen the pics of the colors here is the rest of it.

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Flat spring flat side low wall, Green Mtn. 28" #2 bbl with 14 twist in 25-20. Matted top flat Marbles flexible rear sight MVA beach front 12x Fecker scope.

Shot for the first time today and two different loads went under an inch at 100yds. One was shooting about 5/8" average. Hope today wasn't a fluke.

Brad Hurt

gunsbrad
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Re: Color case hardening

Post by gunsbrad » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:39 pm

Next up is an 1892 winchester that I got as an extremely pitted piece of junk.

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Win 1892 25-20 Mcgowan 10" twist 20" bbl Marbles flexible rear and MVA beach front.

I haven't worked up a serious load for this one yet. I have plinked around with it and it is a blast.

Brad Hurt

Hornetb
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:31 pm

Re: Color case hardening

Post by Hornetb » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:15 pm

Wow, that is some fantastic work. They look superb. You've done a top job on those.

The 25-20 is a great little round too. You can drive those little lead bullets fast with a gas check.

Can't say much more than excellent work.

gunsbrad
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Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:19 am

Re: Color case hardening

Post by gunsbrad » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:38 pm

Here's a Maynard lever I did yesterday.

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Brad

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