MARLIN 1894 38/40

[BART]

Dear Sirs,

I would like some specialists advices for the following standard marlin 1894 rifle : cal. 38/40 SN : 223182 barrel : octogonal 24" front sight : ivory lyman's pat oct 6 85 Bolt : blued.

- Could you give me some data about this rifle ?
- Inspite of you is it a smokeless powder gun or black powder one ?

Thank you very much in advance for all your precious information

Best regards

Bart

[Bart]

Sirs,

I am a little disappointed because I had thought of obtaining at least an answer. I saw that members as to Regnier (sound French this name) were really specialists.
I write from France...

Thank you anyway.

Bart

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bart;

Sorry to have missed your post, I have been traveling, again... According to the old Marlin catalogs, Marlin sold smokeless powder cartridges made for the Model 1894 with jacketed bullets. Since your gun, shipped in early 1902, it was made after smokeless powder was introduced to the public. Now, Brophy states on page 496 that the Model 1894 had a soft steel barrel, which would indicate to me that one should not be using jacketed bullets in the Model 1894 so as not to wear out the rifling to quickly. But, Marlin did offer the jacketed ammunition in the catalogs of the period, so it is a little confusing. So, you can use light, smokeless powder loads, but I would still use soft, lead bullets and not jacketed bullets.
Yes, Regnier is a French name.

[Guest]

Dear Mr Regnier,

Thank you very much for your reply. I understood well your recommendations and shall use soft cast lead bullets. Without abusing too much your time and your advice, have you the other precision on my weapons (shipping date, owner, specific barrel lengh...) ? If not think you that it is interesting to ask for a letter the Buffalo Bill Historical Center ?

Best regards.

Bart

NB : The French surname "Regnier" is by way of Germanic origin and its translation corresponds to something as " military advisor " it is present especially in the North of France (Pas de Calais), is it (the Ardennes) and the West (Normandy or I live).

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bart;

The gun is listed in the factory records like you describe. I really doubt that having a letter from the Cody Firearms Museum is helpful, especially considering the amount they charge for a letter. The records do not reflect where the gun was shipped or who bought it. The only thing listed is the Model number (1894) caliber (.38-40) barrel length and configuration (24 inch octagon) and the date the gun was shipped. No other information is listed.
I would have to look as to what part of France my family was in before immigrating to Canada, then down into Illinois just before the War Between the States (Civil War).

[BART]

Dear Mr Regnier,

Thank you for your advice and precious information about BBHC. I would have liked knowing the exact shipping date of my gun...what a pity ! but I am right with you 70 $ for that is a bit stupid. Too bad !
I possess the original scabbard to the gun and this one is marked with initial's previous owner "MHT". It is a typical 1900's area type with flap and buckle.

Thanks for all Mr Regnier.

NB : If you find the region of origin of your French ancestors, make me know because in France according to sources approximately 15 000 persons carry at present your surname.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bart;

The exact date is April 3, 1902.
My family originated in the seaport of LaRochelle, France. One of the sons left France for Canada in the early 1700's. You are correct about the Germanic influence on the name. Our coat of arms is described as: Azure, 3 escallops argent. Meaning a blue shield with 3 scallop shells, silver in color. It is interesting to me that only 15,000 currently carry the Regnier name in France. Thank you for that information.

[BART]

Dear Mr. Regnier,

I thank you a lot for giving me the exact date. I believe that in 1904, the standard rifle cost 14,5 dollars. It is for me the very beautiful weapon which inspite of me surpasses winchesters (robustness, line, mechanics).

Concerning your ancestors and your surname, here is some information: at present on 65 million French 15158 persons carry your name. It is the 292nd name the most carried in France. Concerning La Rochelle: at present 92 persons carry your name in country. On about 3800 families (about 10 000 persons) which left France between 1608 and 1700 to go to Canada ( acadie ), 1 pioneer on 4 resulted from country of La Rochelle (a very beautiful seaport city).

Next to read you with pleasure.

Best Regards.

Bertrand

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bertrand;

Thank you for the additional information on my family name. There are other members of my family that will be interested as well.

I checked the 1902 Marlin catalog and a standard Model 1894 with octagon barrel sold for $14.40. There were two different Lyman front sights listed, the Number 3, ivory bead was $1.00 and the Number 4 Hunting sight was only $0.50 extra.

[butplate]

Mr Regnier,
This is a good friend of mine, who builds guitars.
You can see some of his work just google him or look at luthierforum.com.
Who knows, it may just be some of your close kin
Thanks
Jesse


Luc Regnier
1569 Mount Pleasant Rd.
Toronto, ON M4N2V4
Canada

416-487-1962

[BART]

Dear Mr Regnier,

I find that one dollar for a front sight is rather expensive. Inspite of you do you believe that it was a front sight for shooting or hunting ? Do you Know how much of rifles 1894 were made by marlin ?

I am very glad with our discussions and your informed precision. It is promised, if I see other Marlins in this country, I send you a message.

Thanks for all.

Friendly. Bertrand

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bertrand;

According to Brophy's book, Marlin listed 35,948 Model 1894 rifles and 10,738 carbines in the old Marlin records. Understand, that the records are by no means complete, and that the records end at 355,500 in December of 1906. The Marlin Firearms Company continued production until 1916 when the company was sold to a corporation to make machine guns for WW I. So the exact number of Model 1894 guns can never be known for sure.
The Lyman #3 Ivory Bead front sight was higher priced because there were different heights available for different models of guns, whereas the Lyman #4 Hunting front sight was listed as just one to order so that there were not different sizes to make. The #3 front sight is good for all work since it has a larger, ivory sighting bead making it easier to see than the smaller ivory insert in the #4 Hunting sight.
Looking forward to hearing from you should you get lucky enough to find more Marlin guns.

Butplate:
Thank you for the information, I will check into it.

[BART]

Dear Mr. Regnier,

I see an ad from a Farwell-Ozmun-Kirk and Co 1904 catalog which said for the 1894 Marlin model : "takes either black or smokless powder cartriges". I think that it is an good information to indicate how strong the steel barrel is. But 1904 is not 1902. Have you ever see this sort of dealer's catalogue ?

Friendly.

Bertrand

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bertrand;

I have seen several different dealers catalogs that offered Marlin arms of some sort, but not the one you mentioned. I checked the 1897 Marlin catalog, and smokeless cartridges were offered for the Model 1894 in that catalog by the Marlin Company. So if they were offering smokeless cartridges, then it must have been okay to use them. One thing I did notice, is that the bullets in the smokeless cartridges were still lead in content. Some were pure lead, wereas a couple were 1 part tin to 60 parts lead, depending upon the caliber. The action certainly is strong enough for the proper loadings of smokeless cartridges, but the soft steel barrels still needed the lead bullets to prevent wearing out the rifling.