Stonewall deringer

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dickaye
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Stonewall deringer

Post by dickaye » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:56 am

I have been posting a few private questions, but I have a general question so I thought I'd ask it here. Concerning the Marlin Stonewall deringer; We think about 200 were manufactured. So how many are presently known about? Regnier I believe is collecting serial numbers. Is there a range of numbers for the Stonewalls or did Marlin just manufacture a deringer and pick a number out of a hat? It must have been a small hat! I just now have an epiphany. I have wondered why so few Stonewalls were manufactured. How about this idea. Stonewall Jackson is very popular now all over the country, but how about in the 1870's? He was trying to invade the North during the civil war and half the country may have had some very negative feelings about a gun named after a Southern general. The entire lot of 200 guns were probably sold in the South!

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:07 pm

Richard;

I really do not believe a New England, "yankee" gunmaker would name a gun after a rebel general. My peroonal opinion about the Stonewall name is that each of the now Never Miss series was to have it's own name, and he .41 caliber gun was to be the Stonewall. Whether the die broke, or someone menioned the similiarities to "Stonewall" Jackson and he decided to change all of the guns in that series to Never Miss will never be known. The only advertisinig I have lists that series as the Never Miss, Number 1, Number 2 and Number 3, for each caliber available. The .22 and .41 Never Miss derringer serial numbers are grouped together, and the number of those in the list is pretty small, but much bigger than the Stonewall.
Yes, he serial number of the Stonewall are in a series, and it is quite small, but not consectitive by any means. Marlin derringer serial numbers are like the lever action guns, intermixed between models. I have seen the prototype Stonewall derringer, and it was actually made on a Victor frame and barrel, but in .41 caliber with notations stamped in the frame as such. Frankly, I beleive there are less than 200 Stonewall derringers made, but I need more serial numbers of existing guns to determine that. I have serial numbers of several hundred Marlin derringers that I have collected over the years of all models and calibers.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Parley Baer
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Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by Parley Baer » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:50 pm

"I have serial numbers of several hundred Marlin derringers that I have collected over the years of all models and calibers."

I hope all the information you have gathered over the years is in a safe place and will not get lost. :wink:
It's a chancey job and it makes a man watchfull....and a little lonely.

dickaye
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Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by dickaye » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:06 pm

Ah Regnier,

A "yankee" gunsmith holding a .41 caliber handgun and protecting himself against a horde of evil doers, standing like a "stonewall" against his enemies. Of course he could name a gun such, no doubt a common term in them thar days! "A Southern general?" "Oh that's right!" So says the smithy and perhaps his favorite uncle, cousin, brother in law or wife's aunt's sister on her father's side once owned property that sat next door to the general's mother's home. It was a family war after all and we live in a small world. Jackson stood like a stonewall and forever earned that nickname and I would bet there were plenty of Union officers who also were nicknamed "Stonewall" for their own heroic stands. Look at the nickname "Buffalo Bill"
There were several gentlemen in the old west called that, but most of them did not travel the world with their own wild west show and nether did the other "Stonewalls" get killed by their own troops and forever be remembered as another reason the South lost the war. Whew! That was a mouth full..............Yet, my argument to the contrary, I'm probably wrong, except "standing like a stonewall" was a popular term back then and probably the reason for naming this gun such. I rest my case!
Dickaye

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:27 pm

Richard;

I for one would not want to attempt to hold off "a horde of evil doers" with a single shot derringer, even if I had a pair as most of the Marlin single shot derringers sold as.
As I mentioned, we may never know what caused John Marlin to change the name of the Stonewall to Never Miss, so we can only speculate, and nothing says you are wrong or right, either way. As I also told you in our email conversation about the Stonewall, there are several differences between the Stonewall and the .41 Never Miss, and maybe some of these changes lead to the change in the name to match up the .41 Never Miss to the .22 and .32 caliber Never Miss guns. We just do not know..........
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

dickaye
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Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:44 pm

Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by dickaye » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:53 pm

Regnier,
I alas do not have hundreds of these little devils. I just have one of each and not each variety. My "Never Miss" is a .22 and might hold off a small horde of rabbits if I loaded the cartidge with shot. Wait a moment, what kind of a cartridge did these deringers use? Copper, brass? When Marlin came out with that first little model, weren't cartridges in their infancy? Did Marlin come out with their own line of bullets or use someone else's?

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:32 pm

Richard;

The S&W Number 1, 1st variation or 1st Issue came out in 1857 and was chambered for the .22 short cartridge. So, the .22 caliber cartridge was around a while before John Marlin brought out his Vest Pocket derringer in about 1863. By then, there were several cartridge companies making the .22 cartridge as quite a few soldiers were carrying the S&W in the War Between the States, sometimes known as the War of Northern Aggression, aka the Civil War.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

dickaye
Marksman
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:44 pm

Re: Stonewall deringer

Post by dickaye » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:54 pm

So S&W and the other manufactures were making cartridges as early as 1857. What metals did they use? I keep thinking of the Army's use of copper at the Little Big Horn and the expansion problems. I always wondered if their choice of copper was based on ignorance or possibly expense, but that was twenty years after 1857..............Dickaye

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