Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

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Trenchwarfare
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Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Trenchwarfare » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:40 pm

I recently picked up a small derringer, which is very similar, to the first model, or Baby .22. The differences are: Shorter barrel (1 9/16") Additional barrel locking lug, under the muzzle. Bead "Sights" (on both ends) And, a Chamber in the muzzle! Apparently, you can fire it, then insert a round in the muzzle, rotate the barrel, and fire again. Giving a quick second shot, and extracting the empty. I can't find any info on this thing. The previous owner, said he had seen only one other, in 50+ years of collecting. I'm not seeing how to post photos, or I would. Any info, is much appreciated. Thanks, M.P.

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:46 am

M.P.

You did not state the caliber of your new derringer. But, from your description, it sounds like the Perry and Goddard, "Double Header" as it is sometimes called. It was made by Renwick Arms Company in New Yourk City in the late 1860's.
These are extremely rare derringers, usually in .41 or .44 caliber rimfire. The name should be marked on the top of the barrel. All of the P&G's known have serial numbers, so it would be interesting to know if yours has a serial number as well.

P.S. The proper name for John Marlin's first derringer is the "Vest Pocket". I have advertising from 1874 that shows the V.P. and is listed by that name. The "First Model" was started many years ago by collectors that did not know the proper name and tended to stick. The "Baby" is totally incorrect and was started by a derringer collector and author that should have known better.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Trenchwarfare
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Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Trenchwarfare » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:24 am

Thanks for the info gunrunner. Sorry for the omissions. The caliber is .22. And, it is a Marlin mfg piece. Top barrel flat is marked: JM Marlin New Haven CT. Serial #2244. So as stated, it is a Vest Pocket, with the added features. This gets curiouser, and curiouser. I'll go back to the top, and try to figure out how to post pictures.

Trenchwarfare
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Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Trenchwarfare » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:01 pm

I thought I already posted a reply, but didn't see one? The caliber is .22, and the pistol is marked: JM Marlin New Haven CT. I got the "Baby" reference, from Flayderman's. Would post photos, but, can't figure out how?

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:37 pm

Trenchwarfare;

Having several Vest Pocket derringers in my collection, I cannot see how it could be converted to swing the barrel completely around and fire it like the Perry & Goddard "Double Header" derringer. The barrel would have had to cut off, then the end of the cut-off section milled to conform to the breech end of the frame as it is slightly curved fit closely when swinging the barrel into position. I guess it could be possible, but the barrel section would be extremely short, and since the Vest Pocket derringer barrel is not rifled, then it would have little effective, accurate range.
If you use the SEARCH feature in the upper, right hand corner, and search for instructions for posting pictures. You will need a photo host such as Photobucket or the like to post pictures.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Trenchwarfare
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:26 pm

Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Trenchwarfare » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:16 pm

Guess it's just too complicated for my pea-sized brain. Here's a link to a Gunboards post with photos.http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread. ... -Derringer

Trenchwarfare
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Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Trenchwarfare » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:40 pm

Does it normally take several days for a post/reply to appear on this forum? The reason I ask, is that my last post, contained a link to photos. These are very important for identification. Plus, I don't know if my reply went through. Just curious.

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:55 pm

Trenchwarfare;

I have registered on the site you posted the pictures, but have not been given the permissions needed to view them yet. As soon as I do, I will get back to you.
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

Regnier (gunrunner)
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Posts: 4153
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:33 am
Location: The Sunflower State

Re: Baby .22 Derringer With Dual Chambers

Post by Regnier (gunrunner) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:36 pm

M.P.

I finally got a chance to look at your modified Marlin Vest Pocket derringer. Very interesting. It would not have been a factory conversion as John Marlin would have come up with a better way to provide the locking lug on the front portion of the barrel. Most likely, a frontier type gunsmith did the modifications. The barrel would have had to be cut off, then the barrel rechambered at the muzzle (?) or should I say new chamber end of the barrel. There surely cannont be much of a bore length left between the two chambers after the new chamber has been drilled. And, since the Marlin Vest Pocket derringer barrels were not rifled, there will be absolutly no accuracy. You had better be very close to your target when you fired this one. The two pin post sights (?), which are worthless for aiming, were added as well as the Marlin Vest Pocket derringer was not originally equipped with any type of sights.
I will admit, I have never seen this type of modification done to a derringer. I have seen a few of the Perry & Goddard derringers, but they were a factory made double shooter. I picked up an interesting .22 caliber Never Miss derringer a few years ago, the barrel having been cut off right at the end of the frame. It removed the front sight but did leave the barrel marking. But... at least the Never Miss derringers had a rifled barrel, so you did have a little accuracy if you could point it in the right direction.
That is about all I can tell you about this one, but it is interesting.............
Due to the increasing cost of ammunition, there be no warning shot!

The growing federal deficit = generational slavery to the national debt.

If the world was perfect.......it wouldn't be.

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