Color case hardening

Hunt4em · Post by **Hunt4em** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:13 pm

Jim,
I've enjoyed reading this post and seeing the pics of your work. I've logged on almost daily to see if there was something new. I hope you will keep posting pics of the rifles you are restoring after they are complete. I enjoy seeing an old gun brought back to it's original glory and not over buffed and hot blued to death!
The difference the shielding makes is really evident in that last pic. I think your work looks great. I've heard so many times that every manufacture had/has their own formula, it would stand to reason that Marlin may have eliminated some steps to protect their trade secret.
One last question if I may, Do you have any problem with warping on the levers?

Thanks, John

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:06 pm

John,

Thanks for your feedback! I may post some before and after photos, but nothing as extensive as the 1889 Deluxe restoration. You just hit my two major hot buttons, buffing wheels and hot salt bluing! I do admit that I own a buffing wheel- I use it for things like the curved surface on a trigger, or the curved surface of a buttplate. That's about it. I've seen so many guns ruined with a buffing wheel. Since I keep my temps at reasonable levels, I don't have a problem with warping. Even on things as thin as levers. What causes warping is when people quench close to or above the critical temperature. Repeated heating above the critical temperature to anneal a part will also cause warping without ever quenching the part. I have a junk 1893 receiver that I use for testing. It has been heated to 1450F to anneal it dozens and dozens of times. It is starting to warp on the tangs, and the trigger plate is starting to open up at the lever boss. I very rarely have to anneal and recase something more than once or twice. This experiment was an exception since it is a whole new way for me to carburize and quench. In this case I think I had to redo the 1889 3 times. Not enough to case any problems as everything fits and works fine.

One thing about CCH'ing is that parts WILL shrink some. Not usually a problem since everything shrinks the same. When I say shrink, it is a only a very slight amount. Actually this is advantageous in that a loose gun will tighten up like a new gun.

-jim

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:10 pm

John,

Here are some photos of the 1889 straight grip that I just put back together. The barrel was originally from the 1889 Deluxe and had several aftermarket modifications. (some dummy hacked off the barrel and mag tube). So I took the full length barrel from this rifle and put it on the Deluxe, and relined the Deluxe barrel and put it on this gun. The mag tube is from a parted out 1893. A great little gun for my wife, the gift of which should allow me to continue my gun collecting vice for a few more months.

PS: Thanks to Marlinman93, Gunrunner and Ultona for information on the length of the half mag tube!!!

-jim

PSS: My wife insisted that I edit this post and tell the world that she outshot me with this gun the first time out. I let her beat me.

Hunt4em · Post by **Hunt4em** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:05 pm

Jim,
That 89' turned out to be a nice looking shooter! I trust your wife will continue to out shoot you with it as long as you have the desire to own any more! I feel your pain.

I had one of my 1892's out awhile back and my other half just flat out smoked me. I told her it was her gun since she shot it better and I keep trying to convince myself that it must have been a custom ordered stock length or SOMETHING!! Got to keep them happy or someone like you might run an ad in the paper looking for a disgruntled wife in possession of my guns.

I again thank you for sharing so much information. I feel I have learned a great deal and I finally have the confidence to try my hand at CCH.

Thanks, John

oodmoff · Post by **oodmoff** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:07 pm

Jim,
Once again just beautiful work. The pictures and the information have top notch

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:27 pm

John, Darin;

Thanks guys.

So John, what newspaper does your wife read?

-jim

Hunt4em · Post by **Hunt4em** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:08 pm

Jim,
That would be the St. Louis Dispatch. NOT! I'm trying real hard to keep this one. She's always ready to go when ever I want to go shooting, hunting or fishing. Heck she's even bought me 4 guns. I think she's a keeper!

Your idea of the ad is almost tempting. I have bought several things (cheap) from GUYS going through a divorce. Now that I think about it, I may have gotten a better deal with their wives.

John

I hope your wife is a keeper too! But if she decides your not, I sure would like to know what paper is delivered to the home of those pretty cased colored rifles!

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:43 pm

Yeah John, she's a keeper! Although there are times when she out shoots me that, well.......

Ok, I lied. I said that I wouldn't post more photos, but I couldn't resist.
This try used a 1.5:1 wood/bone charcoal ratio. Not much more in the rainbow colors, and it's starting to get darker with more bowns, and the patterns are not as distinct. I may go the other direction next try with a 4:1 ratio.

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:29 am

Another from the same batch:

Four-Eyed Buck · Post by **Four-Eyed Buck** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:17 am

Kinda reminds me of the H&R/NEF colors, Jim. lotta blues there. kinda reminds me of the chemically induced ones on my EAA BBH ( Weihrauch, Germany)..................Buck

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:02 am

Buck,

Yeah, I'm not happy with the results. The camera makes it look brighter than it is when looking at it with the naked eye. That's why I'm going to redo it with a smaller percentage of bone charcoal. Two steps forward, one step back.....

-jim

Hunt4em · Post by **Hunt4em** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:41 pm

Jim,

Glad to hear you gotta (crack shot)keeper!

I like the contrast of colors on that deluxe 93, not Marlin colors, but I still like em. I would bet it would bring BIG money on Gunbrokers' these days. The fakes just keep surprising me!

Throw a .410 barrel on it and stand back, cause the moneys going to come rolling in!

The pics you keep posting really show the differences in the ratio of bone to wood. I know the shielding is important, but when I go back and look at all your pics of the different ratios, it is obvious the ratio plays just as an important roll in obtaining color.

Have you ever cased any 92 or 97 Marlins? I've got to get my hands on a oven! Do you have any advise for the thinner frames?

Thanks, John

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:18 am

John,

The most single important thing on CCH'ing, especially thin frames, is to keep your temps down to reasonable levels. I don't go over 1350F to carburize, then I let it cool and stablize at no higher than 1100F before quenching. I also put as many parts together as possible when I CCH. For example on a 1893, the bolt and trigger plate are together with the receiver. Bolt the parts together loosely. If you buy an oven, invest in a programable controller. Ovens are kind of difficult to control manually, in fact the temp can run away from you if you don't watch it closely. Plus you'll get tired quickly of babysitting an oven for four or five hours.

I've done a couple of 92's, but not a 97.

-jim

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:04 pm

Very nice patterns on both of these last two frames Jim. I like the PG 1893 the best of the two.-Vall

Jim D · Post by **Jim D** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:43 pm

Thanks Vall, but they're still not right. Both have been annealed and I'll try some changes in shielding and mix ratio. I want this right before you send me that '89!

-jim