Info on Model 19

[Mark T]

Hi
Hoping someone can give me a little history lesson.
I have a shotgun that belonged to my grandfather who died back in the early 1970's and I am looking for a little background on it.

It's a Marlin Model 19 pump action - 12 Ga barrel - Serial # 90471
Patent Dates on barrel range from April 2, 1889 to November 29, 1904
Exterior bluing is pretty much worn off and exterior kind of looks grayish in color - weapon is very plain looking - Shoulder stock has some repairs and was painted black somewhere down the line. Inside of barrel is perfect looking, very bright and clean. Hammer locks back ok.

Thanks in advance
Mark

[Emmett Dunham]

Your shotgun is a 1898 Marlin style shotgun, clean it up, hang it on the wall or have someone look at it to make sure it is safe and shoot it. Before you shoot it make sure you have the right shells for it, it may take two and five eights inch shells which are not common. The Cowboy shooters are useing these shotguns and you can get on some of thoes sites and find out what they are shooting, I think they are using lite load two inch shells, make sure you get good info from someone dependable that has used them, play safe. I have two of this style shotgun and I shoot them very little, they are more like shooting a rifle than a shotgun. The value of the shotguns are not that great unless yours have special features, the value of yours is that it was passed down to you.


Emmett

[SteveW]

Model 19s all take the 2 3/4 inch shotgun shell. I have also heard that SASS has banned Marlin shotguns from competition. I've no idea why. SW

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Mark T;

The Model 19 exposed hammer, pump action shotgun was listed in the old Marlin catalogs from 1906 to 1907. A gun with the serial number listed would probably have been shipped in about 1906.
The Model 19 is a takedown action with a pistol grip stock. The standard or "A" grade gun sold for $23.25 in 1906.
I hope this helps.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Steve, Due to Marlin's letter issued some years back, they decided to ban them for liability reasons. It's been since 2001-2 since I saw any posts about one coming apart or a problem. Especially after Rusty Marlin's excellent treatise on their care and inspection came out.
The '97's are still legal, but I've seen some reports about a couple getting ruined because of incorrect reassembly( firing pin portrusion), or the flag not doing it's job and allowing the right extractor to contact the primer( ). The newer copies are starting to be used more now, but a lot of the oldies are still out there.
I've got a '98 myself and would love to give her some exercise, but rules are rules.
As far as what was used ammowise, the Winchester AA low noise, low recoil shells are recommended highly, or if you roll your own, keep pressures in the 6,000 LUP range, low brass, with 7/8ths or 1 oz. of lead.
The safety paper can be read at the following URL in the "Irons" section. Note that the URL is different from what it used to be.
http://www.marauder.homestead.com/cowboy.html

[SteveW]

Buck,

Thanks for the reason behind the ban! I had imagined it was from folks altering different parts for a perceived 'edge' of some sort in competition.

I have never had any trouble shooting 'dove' or trap loads in mine. SW

[Mark T]

Wow
Thanks much for all the replys...
Didn't plan on doing much with it other than hanging it on a wall. I have other weapons for shooting.
My grandfather used to hunt with it up to about 1960 or so - probably the last time it was fired.
I believe, but can not prove, that he may have got it from his father who died in 1912, so the age of the weapon would be right on if my great-grandfather had bought it before he died. Adds a little to my belief.
Thanks again,
Mark

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Steve, People have been altering parts on the '97's, if done correctly they get pretty smooth to operate. done incorrectly........well, you get the picture. In addition to the Marlin's being banned, they banned the Spencer pumps and the Win. '93's, including a proposed repro '93 using the '93 type frame but with a lot of the '97 improvements. There's a CAS smith in Minn. that's just about the best there is on doing '97's. He's also responsible for straightening out the Chinese '97 copy and bringing to market an 1887 Win. lever shotgun repro. they've just hit our shores in the last month or so. Took him over three years and a bunch of trips to China to get it done. From all the grousing over the years, I'll bet he's got a bunch of gray hair now as there were quite a few screw ups and delays on the Chinese part. The boys were pretty rough on him for awhile. The '87 shotgun has been wanted by CAS shooters since before 2000. A Turkish company and then an Australian company started on them, but failed to deliver except for a few Aussie guns that stayed in Australia and were given to some of the top Aussie shooters before the contract was cancelled due to increased need for military guns over there...........Buck

[Scrotilson]

Does anyone in the group no whether or not there was a U.S. Military "Trench Gun", version of the Marlin 19 S shotgun? By "Trench gun", I mean a 19S outfitted with a 20" 'C' barrel. A ventilated metal barrel heat shield. A fixture on the end of the barrel for attaching a U.S. 1917 bayonet. And a sling swivel on the stock. And the various Military stampings on the barrel, the receiver, and the stock.

Has anyone in the group ever seen one that has been documented as authentic?

I read this post by fellow member Regnier (gunrunner): viewtopic.php?p=44013&sid=5e46dd1c9db51 ... 0a3#p44013

After reading Regnier's reply, I'm inclined to believe that there was at least a "Riot Gun" version of the 19 S. Otherwise, why produce the 'C' barrel?

Has anyone ever seen the 'Riot Gun' version of the 19 S?

Thank guys !!

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Scrotilson;

Years ago at the Denver Gun Show ( CGCA ) Bill Brophy purchased a Marlin shotgun that as I remember was a Model 17 with the Ordinance Bomp stamped on the receiver. Bill claimed this was the only Marlin he owned. But, there was not heat shield or bayonet lug. It did have a 20 inch barrel. He was pretty sure it was real. If there was one, why not others?
Did Marlin produce any other guns for the Military? Not sure about shotguns, but during WW I, they did produce machine guns!
Marlin did produce other Riot Gun versions of their pump action shotguns. I had a Model 26 and have seen several Model 42's. The Riot Gun version was advertised in the Marlin catalogs along with other grades and versions.

[Scrotilson]

Thank you Regnier for the reply. I have read your essay on the 17S, and I have seen pictures of the 'Riot Gun' version of it. In fact, it appears that they are being re-manufactured, or recreated, or whatever..............https://www.ossorafirearms.com/products/marlin-5403

I very recently ran across a Marlin 19-S (supposed) 'Trench Gun' for sale on one of bigger gun sales websites. It has all the goodies, short barrel (although there was the letter "F" stamped in alongside the serial number), heat shield, bayonet lug, and an inspectors stamp along with the crossed cannons stamp on the stock, a U.S. stamp along with a Flaming Bomb stamp on the receiver, and a Flaming Bomb stamp on the barrel.

The letter "F" with the serial number, as you pointed out, would not have originally been a 20" barrel. So, my guess is, some guy just put this thing together as possibly an homage to the Trench Guns of WWI? Or he created this clone/fake just to make a couple of bucks?

I bought it anyway. It's pretty cool looking. It comes with a what appears to be, a vintage wood handled U.S. 1917 Bayonet. It was cheap...........what the *beep*. Once I get it checked to make sure it's not going to blow up in my face, it'll make a nice Mole gun. Ha-Ha.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Scrotilson;

Lots of problems with that Model 17 you posted the link to. It has been refinished and a recoil pad added. The price tag is certainly quite high for what is offered.
Yeah, your barrel has been cut off from a longer barrel, probably either a 30 inch or a 32 inch.