Black powder loads for your levers- 45-70

[seanmcneal]

Hello all! I was just wondering what folks are using load wise to shoot black powder, or a substitute like T7 in your 45-70 levers. I’m using a 405 gr hard cast lead pills.
Enjoy the week!

V/r
s

[Brent]

I use Swiss 1.5 or 2fg in mine with 410 grian paper patched bullets.

[seanmcneal]

Nice! I’m not at the paper patch level yet…

[Brent]

Sure you are. You just dont know it.

[seanmcneal]

Ha! Perhaps one day…

[Brent]

Ah! Let's go for it. I am happy to help. If you kill a pronghorn, or whatever, you will at least triple your satisfaction. Marlins are, by far, the best lever gun for blackpowder and it is just a small step forward to go the whole distance to paper patching.

Trust me....

[marlinman93]

I do occasionally shoot BP and also use Swiss 1.5fg when loading for my .45-70 rifle. My bullet is a 530 gr. because mine is a single shot Marlin Ballard and no problem with the long bullet like it could be with a lever action repeater. My load is 67 grs. of Swiss and extremely accurate.
But I load the vast majority of my old 1800's Marlins using 4198 smokeless powders at around 1350 fps velocities. 4198 gives me pressure well within BP pressures, and a nice gentle pressure curve that's under 19,000 psi in all my loads. Some down around 16,000 psi even. I've used 4198 in either Hodgdon or IMR for decades, and the loads are milder than my full case BP loads.
This is my Ballard Pacific in .40-85 Ballard shooting H4198 at 650 yds.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Di_xED ... hLongshots

[seanmcneal]

Darn nice shooting Sir! What are you using for your rear sight?

[marlinman93]

Darn nice shooting Sir! What are you using for your rear sight?

The rear sight is an original Marlin Ballard tang sight. A very rare version as it's the early mid range version that is 1" shorter than a long range, but also 1" taller than the later mid range Marlin offered. Only Ballard tang sight like this I've ever owned. Most of my old Ballard rifles have original sights I shoot with.

[seanmcneal]

Nice, thanks!

[rfd]

I use Swiss 1.5 or 2fg in mine with 410 grain paper patched bullets.

I just picked up a .45-70 lever carbine and this thread got me wondering about running black in it, and maybe even PPBs.

Any maintenance issues with black and a lever gun?

What needs to be concerned about black residue corrosion, or maybe it's really not a concern?

Single feed or tube loading? If the tube mag is loaded, how's the neck tension set for PPBs, and any concern about them coming apart in the tube?

Much obliged to all!

Cheers,
Rob.

[Brent]

I shoot a lot of black in my 1895 Marlin .45-70. I do use paper patches. It is a bit tricky and limiting but not impossible.

I load through the gate and fill the tube. No problems there. The issue is fouling affecting the loading. I get about 3 shots before I lose accuracy. Maybe 4 or 5 when things are going well, but it is a problem. I use a grease cookie under the bullet, which steals some case space so I have a bullet that slides up into the bore quite a ways. I worked up a load for Alaskan black bears but never saw a bear I wanted to shoot. I did kill a doe antelope with it, however.

Cleaning is pretty simple. Blackpowder fouling is not nearly as corrosive as people would have you think, but you do have to clean. I pull the bolt and wipe from the breech. It is very quick and easy using just plain water as a cleaning fluid. A few wet patches, then a pair of dry and finally an oiled patch. Works great. I have a pull-through "bore snake" that I made with a piece of weed-eater line and a foam earplug. I spear a damp patch with the sharpened line and that works great for hunting purposes or a quick wipe between groups of shots at the range. But for good cleaning, pull the bolt.

There is a guy on ebay (or at least there was) who makes a knurled thumb screw that fits the Marlin 189x rifles so that you can pull the lever off without even a screwdriver. Sort of ugly, but darn practical in the field. You can see it on this photo of my 1893 .38-55 which also shoots black.

[rfd]

I shoot a lot of black in my 1895 Marlin .45-70. I do use paper patches. It is a bit tricky and limiting but not impossible.

I load through the gate and fill the tube. No problems there. The issue is fouling affecting the loading. I get about 3 shots before I lose accuracy. Maybe 4 or 5 when things are going well, but it is a problem. I use a grease cookie under the bullet, which steals some case space so I have a bullet that slides up into the bore quite a ways. I worked up a load for Alaskan black bears but never saw a bear I wanted to shoot. I did kill a doe antelope with it, however.

Cleaning is pretty simple. Blackpowder fouling is not nearly as corrosive as people would have you think, but you do have to clean. I pull the bolt and wipe from the breech. It is very quick and easy using just plain water as a cleaning fluid. A few wet patches, then a pair of dry and finally an oiled patch. Works great. I have a pull-through "bore snake" that I made with a piece of weed-eater line and a foam earplug. I spear a damp patch with the sharpened line and that works great for hunting purposes or a quick wipe between groups of shots at the range. But for good cleaning, pull the bolt.

There is a guy on ebay (or at least there was) who makes a knurled thumb screw that fits the Marlin 189x rifles so that you can pull the lever off without even a screwdriver. Sort of ugly, but darn practical in the field. You can see it on this photo of my 1893 .38-55 which also shoots black.

Good stuff, Brent, thank you. The gun in question is a Henry .45-70 (H010GCC) and it can be gate or tube loaded/unloaded.

I'm quite familiar with BP cartridge and muzzleloader guns and have had Many, but never a lever repeater that I'd want to run solely with black 'til I acquired this rifle.

I was planing on pulling the bolt for running a jagged cleaning rod, and I have Patchworm pullers as well. I like the idea of grease cookies, but that's something I rare use since it eats up powder space, but makes sense in a lever repeater. Yep, that take-down lever bolt is neat, I have one on order from Ranger Point Precision.

I'd guess that a fair amount of neck tension would be required on the PPB if it were to be magazine loaded rather than single round fed. I load PPBs with 1-1/2F Swiss, patched slicks in 364 to 523 grains, and various wads to suit.

Mostly the gun will be used for range plinking out to a much distance as it and the loads will allow, and for whitetail, hog, and black bear hunts, so going single feed won't be that much of a handicap. It would be neat if I could run it as a repeater and get 2 or 3 accurate rounds without the need for fouling control.

As to what sights to use, I'm not sure just yet. Not a fan of using a buckhorn & blade with my 79yo eyes. I do like the idea of a tang peep and maybe a spirit globe up front. Scope? Please, nope!

[Brent]

I would avoid the spirit level front. You won't be shooting a lever that far to need it, even if you do get it out to 300 or 400 yds.. Put a Marbles lollipop on the tang. I use a Lyman, but Marbles would be better. That may also allow you to use the barrel sights as needed. I set the barrel sights for 100 yds and the tang sight for 200, or something similar.



Neck tension is not needed per se. You will be loading the bullets much deeper in the case. For this instance, I use a 2 diameter paper patched bullet that gives me the overall length of a .45-90 cartridge that could be used in a Marlin and I use the extra space to add the lube cookie. I think I have about 69 grains, but I would have to check.

[rfd]

I hear ya on the level part of a spirit globe front, I'd really just want the peep and a Lee Shaver 17A comes with the level, but a Lyman without a level should work in a 3/8" dovetail and be cheaper to boot. I'm just used to a front peep and have always had one on all my Sharps and rollers.

I'd already checked out the Marbles tang peeps and none mentioned the H010G rifle so I emailed them and they said nothing they have would work. However, the Lyman #2 Tang Peep is stated to fit a Henry H010 (for which there are a number of similar model such as the H010G, H010CC, and others).

It appears that the Marbles tang peep has a windage adjustment that the Lyman lacks ... bummer. How are you handling that Lyman tang peep for windage? Maybe there'd be a way to fit a Marbles that's meant for other Henry lever guns, dunno.

I could also fit the supplied buckhorn leaf with a "washer magnet" (neodymium) that'd turn it into a mid-bbl peep, and/or use it for close targets and the Lyman tang peep for more distant targets, I guess how you're using your Marlin lever sights.

For sure I'd need to do some 'spirimentin' with BP PPBs, but that'd be more interesting than troublesome ... and an achievement if I can make it happen to work at least reasonable well. Let the lever gun games begin ...

Much obliged for all your assistance, Brent!