Color case hardening

Anything to do with gun smithing.
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marlinman93
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Postby marlinman93 » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:03 pm

Well your second attempt is day and night difference! You are getting very close to what you're trying to attain!
I have a question or two. Do you have to anneal the parts between attempts, or can they just be cased again? Do you polish the parts again, of just pack them and try it over?
I sure enjoy these posts, and watching the whole process Jim!
PS-That Roller is gorgeous!
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!

Jim D
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Postby Jim D » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:41 pm

Vall,

Yes, I anneal the parts after every attempt. It releives the internal stresses that occur during the quench. After they are annealed I polish them very lightly with 320 grit. I think I'll get 'er this next try.....

-jim

PS: that's actually two different rollers. If you do things the same every time, you should get consistent results. On the other hand, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results!

Hunt4em
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Postby Hunt4em » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:57 pm

Jim,
Thanks for the advise. I have been toying with the idea for a couple years now and your post has really got me stirred up to give it try! You have shed some light on all the things I have read. My limited knowledge of metallurgie told me not to exceed 1400 degrees, but all the other info on the net just gets confusing. I read one that suggested placing a water barrel under an apple tree. ???. It's nice having someone like you to share your experiences and show the results, good or bad. I look forward to seeing the pics when you achieve spot on MARLIN colors. You'll get there, I think I can speak for all of us, we're pulling for ya!
Thanks, John
P.S. That is a nice rolling block.

Hunt4em
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Postby Hunt4em » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:10 pm

Jim,
Just wanted to add that the pigeon dung is a new one on me, I hadn't stumbled onto that one yet. I can think of four elevator housings I've been in doing electrical work, that you could shovel a lot of tricalcium phosphate, for FREE! I'd bet that black cloud would smell nice! :roll: Best of luck to ya.
Thanks, John

Jim D
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Postby Jim D » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:00 pm

John,

The only pigeon dung that I've been able to collect is on from the hood of my truck when I park under the downtown viaduct. Occasionaly I can collect some from my forehead when I look up. Ever notice how warm pigeon *beep* is when it hits your forehead? Birds must have a much higher body temperature than humans. But, I digress. I've never been able to collect enough for a serious trial. Send me a few pounds of the stuff and I'll throw it in my next mix to further the cause of science, history, and the betterment of mankind!

-jim

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Postby Jim D » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:36 pm

I received a couple of photos, one of a mid 1910's and one of a late 1920's 93 from one of the members that really illustrates the difference in the colors produced by Marlin over the years.

From the mid teens:

Image

From the late twenties:
Image

Don Anderson's 1893 from 1900
Image

I think the difference in colors can be attributed to a higher percentage of bone charcoal used in CCH'ing the later '93's. Similar to the two RB's that I CCH'ed with a 2:1 mix. The higher percentage of bone creates more of the rainbow colors by creating a coarser and thicker Iron Oxide layer but that is more fragile and susceptable to wear. From past experience, I would guess that the 1900 rifle was somewhere around a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio, the mid teens around a 2:1 ratio, and the late twenties rifle maybe as high as a 1:1 ratio. Anyway, from these three photos you can reall see that the later it was made, the higher to ratio of bone charcoal.

If any other members have photos of rifles with most or all of the CCH'ing present, and would like to share them, please let me know. Also let me know if you want me to mention your name or not.

Thanks!

-jim[/img]
Last edited by Jim D on Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Don Anderson
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Postby Don Anderson » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:39 pm

Jim:

No big thing, but my rifle was from August, 1900, not 1904.

Don

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Postby Jim D » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:12 pm

Don, made the correction to 1900, thanks!

I thought I'd post photos of a couple of rifles from my collection for comparison. Looks like sometime after 1900 they started playing around with the mix?

1902:
Image

1903:
Image

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Postby Don Anderson » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:47 pm

Jim:

Thank you for sending the pictures. They sure are beautiful examples of case coloring. You can be very proud to have them, as anyone would.

Don

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Postby Jim D » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:54 pm

Thanks Don, they're pretty decent examples, but not as nice as yours though! I think it's fascinating to see some of the high condition examples out there, and how the colors, even the patterns changed. I would love to see a CCH'd '89 to see how that compares to your 1893.

-jim

oodmoff
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Postby oodmoff » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:45 pm

Jim
Those are both really fine examples, now I see how you got motivated!
Thanks
Darin

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Postby Hunt4em » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:07 pm

Jim,
I'd be glad to send you some pigeon buy product. But what would happen at the post office when they ask "What's in the box?" :lol: If I said pigeon poo are they going to laugh me out of there or arrest me like some terrorist? :twisted:
Thanks for posting the pics showing that Marlin did a little experimenting of there own. I would almost give a left nut for that rifle of Don's, maybe both of them, then I could lay on the porch with the dog and my beautiful rifle!
Thanks, John

Jim D
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Postby Jim D » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:22 pm

John,

Just joking about sending the pigeon p00p (did that to get by the censors) :lol: REALLY :!:

-jim

Hunt4em
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Postby Hunt4em » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:10 am

Jim,
I was only joking as well! But I am curious what they would say at the post office. Last week I was standing in line behind a licensed FFL dealer trying to ship a gun. The postman ask what's in the box? The man replied "a gun". The postman ask "what kind of gun?" The man replied "a gun" The postman ask " is it a shotgun or rifle?" The man replied "just a gun" Another postman approached and said " It's ok, we have a copy of his license, go ahead and send it." It takes me four weeks to receive a cylindrical package because it looked "suspicious" and yet they let him be a butt and still ship the questionable gun! That's the Gov. for ya!
Thanks, John

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marlinman93
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Postby marlinman93 » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:03 pm

Don't even get me started on the USPS! It's the only way I ship, but I was denied the ability to ship an antique rifle a couple weeks ago!
Some woman employee told me it was illegal for the USPS to ship firearms! Had to go home and get my copies of the USPS' own regulations, and take them back to educate her.
I told her it was odd that USPS shipped so many before for me, and to me, but she didn't think it was legal!
Now I will take the regs with me whenever I ship!
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!


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