Color case hardening

Anything to do with gun smithing.
Post Reply
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

Vall,

I have a fair number of guns shipped to me by USPS at my office. About a year ago the mailman figured out what was in those long boxes and had a fit! He told the receptionist that it was illegal to ship guns (even antique) in the mail. He must have checked the regs and is fine now. Also, we give him cookies every now and then. Take cookies next time, it works!

-jim
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

THIRD TRY:

The last attempt produced colors, but they but I didn't think the coverage and patterns were acceptable. Again, this is a whole new CCH'ing setup from one that I normally use so it has to be tweeked. From the previous try I figured that in order to get better colors, coverage and pattern, that I was going to have to develop some sort of shielding. Shielding directs the flow of water around the parts in the quench, and is very important in obtaining good results. Although Marlin did not appear to use any shielding in "The Film", I have heard that in real practice that they bolted the receivers together, and dumped the lid of the crucible into the water, along with all of the contents when they quenched. This would do the same sort of thing as shielding would do by directing the water and keeping the parts in close proximity to each other. I came up with kind of a tent that fits over the receiver that directs the water away from the receiver, then flows back into the sides of the receiver. The individual shields and receivers are then bolted together in the crucible so that they hold their relative positions to each other.

Individual shield:
Image

Receivers and shields bolted together:
Image

Buttplates bolted together creates their own shielding:
Image

After quenching the parts are put back in the oven at 400F for half an hour to relieve any residual stresses:
Image

Final results:
Image
Image

The 1889 Deluxe receiver was in the middle of the group and had the best colors, coverage and patterns. I am going to redo the other two receivers and will have to come up with some side shielding for the outside surfaces. Developing a CCH'ing process is a reiterative process. Each time you try to learn something and perfect the process. Once the process is perfected, you should get consistant results.

-jim
User avatar
Four-Eyed Buck
Marksman 1st Class
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:38 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio

Post by Four-Eyed Buck »

That looks really nice, Jim. Think you might be really close, if not spot on.............Buck 8) :wink:
If Marlin made SA revolvers, I'd be shooting those, too!!!
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

Thanks Buck. I'm going to bump the bone charcoal next run so I can pick up a little more of the rainbow colors.

-jim
Hunt4em
Sharpshooter
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:10 am
Location: SW,Mo.

Post by Hunt4em »

Whoa, all you need now is fine piece of checkered walnut and you'll have a dang nice rifle! Those colors look great. Makes me wonder what kind of sales Marlin could achieve if they would CCH those new cowboy rifles.
It looks like you've got it figured out with the shielding. Does the strap bolted to the receiver tang prevent it from coloring where it is attached?
Thanks, John
User avatar
marlinman93
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 2853
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:22 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Post by marlinman93 »

Wish you could see the big smile on my face Jim! It just tickles me to see that kind of workmanship! You've really done a lot of work, and I'm happy it has prooven out with some very nice results!
Vall
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

John,

I've already got the stock done and checkered. If you look at the post "Restoring an 1889 Deluxe" you can see a photo of the gun before I case hardened it. I'll post the finished photo once I get it all put back together this weekend. The strap that is bolted to the tang only actually touches where it is bolted. It acts like a shield and helps with color on the tang that normally would probably come out white.

-jim
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

Vall,

Wish you could have seen the big smile on MY face after I pulled it from the quench tank! The ol' gal will be shooting again by Sunday!

-jim
User avatar
Four-Eyed Buck
Marksman 1st Class
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:38 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio

Post by Four-Eyed Buck »

Hunt4em, Marlin offered some 1894's with CC frames starting in 2002. The CBC's first ones in .38 Spec. and then a .45 one. Had 20" octogons and smooth wood. The .45's had blued bolts. Don't believe they're being offered now. I have a CBC in .38 that's outstanding................Buck 8) :wink:
If Marlin made SA revolvers, I'd be shooting those, too!!!
Hunt4em
Sharpshooter
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:10 am
Location: SW,Mo.

Post by Hunt4em »

Buck,
I don't recall ever seeing those, but then again I don't look at new guns that often. I have a first year 1894 357 mag that I haven't shot in probably 10 yrs. Always shot high with the elevator all the way down. I killed a nice 8 pt with it and move on to something else. Do you know if these rifles sold good numbers?
Thanks, John
User avatar
Four-Eyed Buck
Marksman 1st Class
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:38 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio

Post by Four-Eyed Buck »

For awhile they did, Jim. But CAS people are kinda fickle and Scotch at the same time. They were advertised with a "factory" action job, but really weren't close to what some of the CAS smith's were doing. Guy's figured they could get a regular CB and put an action job in it and still be $$ ahead, so sales began to drop. For me, I needed a .38 caliber rifle to finish a brace and, I just had to have the case colors. Mine's fairly early in the production run, around the first 200 or so. It was a goody, beautiful colors/pattern and worked quite well out of the box( some didn't). It's first match right after I got it was a clean one with no more than a perfunctory cleaning and a check on the sights! I've since had it slicked up some more and it's been a real performer. They're still out there to be had, either new( mostly .45's) or used. The only difference between them and the new CB's is the case colors now, as they went to 20" barrels and no checkering on all of them around 2003.........................Buck 8) :wink:
If Marlin made SA revolvers, I'd be shooting those, too!!!
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

FORTH TRY:

For this batch I case hardened 3 receivers; a 1889, a 1893 takedown, and a 1893 Deluxe takedown. I changed the mix from 3:1 to 2:1 wood to bone charcoal. I also decreased the distance between the receivers in the crucible and added some sheilding on the outside surfaces. I don't know if the results qualify as "Marlin colors" or not. Guess it depends on who's gun you compare it to since there seems to be a wide range in the colors Marlin produced.

Image
Image
Hunt4em
Sharpshooter
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:10 am
Location: SW,Mo.

Post by Hunt4em »

Jim,
That 93 looks good! I've seen originals that have the colors fade towards the bottom on the receiver. It must be something to do with the way or direction they enter the quench. The 89 looks like it could be two different rifles with the difference in colors on each side. I'm amazed buy the variation of color or lack of, with the slightest change in the process. I look forward to more info and pics. Maybe, with what you're showing me here, my first attempt want be a crap shoot. I have a few friends looking for me a used oven. I could use my friends but I would rather be able to "experiment" on my own schedule. Besides the fact he thinks the only "good" gun is a new one! :roll:
Are you still considering an article for the news letter? I for one would like to see that happen. You post some very informative stuff on here and I think there are some non forum surfing members out there that would enjoy reading a good article on color case hardening. Just my $.02
Thanks, John
Jim D
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: Cody, Wyoming

Post by Jim D »

John,

You are correct, it has everything to do with how the receiver enters the quench. You can see that on Don's rifle also, previously shown on this post. Sheilding and how the parts enter the quench is probably 90% of the equation, and easily the most frustrating and difficult part of the process to get right. The good news is that once you have it nailed down, and do the same exact thing every time, you will get consistant results. It took a lot of tries to figure out how to do '86 Winchesters, but now I do the same thing every time, and know what to expect. I'm not quite there yet with the Marlins, but I'm close. The point is that you will have setbacks as you get into this. Keep after it and don't get frustrated and you will get it. It's a lot of work and a lot of time, but it will be worth it!

I'd love to do an article- Rick is checking with the folks at Marlin to see if there is a way to write it so that it doesn't expose them to any liability.
I think the number of visits to this post would indicate there is some interest.

-jim
Sure-Shot
Distinguished Expert
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:01 pm
Location: Poulsbo, Washington, USA

Post by Sure-Shot »

JimD I find this facinating, even if I never try it, I at least have a good idea how it is done. I agree it would be a great article, but , I think it would be even better on a CD showing the whole process as you narrate it.
GBOT, GBUSA
Post Reply